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- From: Dave Winer <email@example.com>
- To: firstname.lastname@example.org
- Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 08:14:24 -0800
I want to briefly add my two cents here. XML is about compatibility and
working together. Paul is 100 percent right. No killer apps. The most
exciting thing I ever see is deployment of interesting open documented XML
apps. The specs mean nothing until something gets deployed.
An example, I learned yesterday that DreamWeaver supports a plug-in
archictecture that's XML-DOM based. What does this mean? I have no idea!
But I'll learn about it because it's deployed in an app that lots of people
It's what you do that isn't XML that gives your offering juice, if it's
connected to XML. That and how many and what kinds of people use it.
Just my opinion, of course.
At 10:59 AM 1/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>[I'm hoping the XML-Dev mailer won't send this out repeatedly like it did
>my last posting. If it does, many apologies, and apologies for the last
>At 09:43 AM 1/8/99 -0500, Jonathan Borden wrote:
>> 1) Its not that plumbing is unexiting and 2) Paul is just being
>Paul's honesty is fine; it's the dismissal of XML's potential that I find
>extraordinarily disturbing from someone so close to the standard. Calling
>XML plumbing is good - provided you follow up by saying that plumbing is
>useful, indeed critically important, not by saying that it does 'NOTHING'
>>Linux and Java are in the same boat at XML in terms of the fact that their
>>are different OS's and languages. Its not about the fact that something CAN
>>be done, for example, I COULD go back to coding assembler, and I would be
>>able to write programs, certainly SGML has been around for a while and has
>>had mostly a supraset of XML's capabilities. The real issue is the ease of
>>performing a task, and obtaining a momentum so that black boxes can become
>Linux is a great general-purpose platform, on which you can run Java, a
>great general-purpose multiplatform-capable OOP language, which you can use
>to process XML documents efficiently. If I really wanted, I could run
>Windows, and use programs written with Microsoft C++ that only work with
>files in proprietary formats. At present, the latter is definitely easier
>for most tasks, if frustrating in its own way. That doesn't make the
>Linux/Java/XML combination any less compelling - but we do need to make
>clear the differences between Linux and Windows, Java and C++ (and other
>contenders), and XML and proprietary formats instead of just throwing our
>hands in the air and proclaiming it all the same thing.
>> Perhaps because XML is plumbing, it has been able to gain its own momentum.
>>Who is the evangelist of the Web today? or of the Internet in general? or of
>>E-mail? Certainly their are market leaders and visionaries but for truly
>>important things, their importance can become self-evident.
>There are no formal 'Web evangelists', though Tim Berners-Lee is about the
>closest thing we've got. I proposed creating an organized group of XML
>evangelists at the beginning of last year, and got virtually no support.
>Unfortunately, I don't yet think it's clear that XML's importance is
>anywhere near self-evident, and its initial goal of 'SGML on the Web' seems
>pretty clearly forgotten. Programmers and database developers have
>certainly jumped on it, so it does seem to be finding a home, but I
>wouldn't call its importance self-evident yet.
>> If I am building a house, the importance of installing plumbing is
>It is now, but it wasn't when plumbing first came out. My grandparents
>sold a lake cottage in the 50's rather than bring it up to a new building
>code by installing indoor plumbing. Didn't seem worth the cost or the
>hassle to them, and the new owners got to do it, whether they wanted to or
>Plumbing is important, enabling, and prevents us from having to live in a
>sewer. Getting the components in order is an important first step; a
>second step is encouraging people to use this plumbing so we can all work
>on the same system, instead of thousands of separate systems.
>XML: A Primer / Cookies
>Building XML Applications (March)
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