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   RE: [xml-dev] Attribute Order

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elliotte Rusty Harold [mailto:elharo@metalab.unc.edu]
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 7:24 PM
> To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Attribute Order
> So far Schematron's the most powerful language, but it still hasn't 
> reached Turing completeness. Using actual program code lets your 
> schemas verify  criteria of types one and two. Type three is still an 
> area of active research. But existing schema languages seem mostly 
> stuck at Type 0.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with this categorization ... what "criteria of
types" being referred to here?

Anyway, I completely agree -- it's perfectly reasonable for schema designers
to specify constraints that can't be expressed in an existing XML schema
language.  We went around on this a couple of months ago, and as I recall we

-  schemas are certainly useful to define "contracts" constraining the
markup that a receiver is expected to understand; 
- schema validators or validating parsers may are likely to be very useful
in debugging or auditing software to ensure that the contract is being
adhered to;

- XML-level validation may, in some (limited?) circumstances, suffice as the
"business logic" to ensure that an XML document or message should be
accepted by some receiving process.

- XML-level validation is more likely to be useful as a cost-effective way
of doing a coarse-grained screening out of blatantly unacceptable documents
or messages so that program code can check the constraints that can't be
expressed in a schema language.   Whether it makes sense to do both the
schema validation and the programmatic validation is something that
individual designers must determine for their own environment.

- [this is more my personal understanding than a consensus of the list] Most
"real world, real-time" XML document/message validation today involves
program code or human intelligence rather than XML DTD or schema validation.



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