OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help



   Re: [xml-dev] W3C's five new XQuery/Xpath2 working drafts - Still miss

[ Lists Home | Date Index | Thread Index ]

At 05:15 PM 12/24/2001 -0800, Dare Obasanjo wrote:

> > At 11:13 AM 12/24/2001 -0800, Jeff Greif wrote:
> > >One issue not addressed is what progress has the XQuery WG already made on
> > >update syntax.  If they have already done substantial preliminary 
> work, but
> > >have some perceived need to produce an interim XQuery spec before that's
> > >ready for release, it may be a duplication/fragmentation of effort to
> > >produce a competing spec in an Oasis TC, and take just as long.
> >
> > In fact, this is just the case. Several members of the XML Query WG
> > developed a proposal, and several vendors are implementing variations of
> > this proposal. This proposal was the basis of a presentation that I gave at
> > XML 2001 in Orlando this Fall.
> >
>For those of us that were not able to attend XML 2001, is there any material
>related to your presentation online such as PDFs, Powerpoint slides or similar
>material? I am primarily curious as to whether this update proposal is similar
>to the grammar on the Microsoftr XML demo site at
> or more like the proposal from the UW
>database group at
>http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/zives/research/updatingXML.pdf or something
>completely different.

I can send a PowerPoint and some sample queries. I hope to start work with 
other companies in January to produce an updated proposal. The Microsoft 
implementaton and ours are *very* similar, which is not surprising, since 
we worked with Microsoft, IBM, and Crossgain on the original proposal from 
which our implementations are derived. I think that we can iron out the 
differences and create one joint proposal.

>Speaking of which, besides Microsoft's XQuery demo at
>and GoXML (http://www.xmlglobal.com/xmlgupdate/new.html), what are the other
>implementations of XQuery out there and more importantly where and when do you
>think we are going to see more the implementations of XQuery that contain the
>update features you mention?

Here's my current list:

Software AG's QuiP





XML Global



Kawa-Query - compiles to Java byte code


CL-XML (Common Lisp)

Kweelt (Quilt)

I know that the implementations from Software AG and Microsoft both contain 
update. There may be others. There are certainly others in development.

>Why is the quick release of XQuery so important?

The XQuery WG was chartered in September of 1999. I would not necessarily 
say that 2 1/2 years is "quick" in Internet time, though it does, of 
course, take time to develop things right. Since companies and universities 
are funding the manpower to develop the specification, we do need to be 
able to finish specifications in a time frame considered reasonable by the 
people who are volunteering to pay the people to do the work.

>Are there really that many
>businesses that stand to lose that much money if they have to use XPath for a
>few more months instead of jumping to XSLT-with-different-syntax aka XQuery?

XSLT is not strongly typed, is not set up for function libraries, and has 
been rather difficult to optimize for large repositories. I don't think 
that the differences are merely syntactic. And yes, I think that a number 
of database companies think they are likely to lose money if they do not 
have XQuery in their upcoming product cycle.

>I wouldn't discount a seperate OASIS TC yet unless it was shown that the W3C
>was making concrete moves towards adding updates to the langauge in the near
>future as opposed to _considering_ it for some nebulous future release of
>XQuery which would be meaningless since vendors would have come up with their
>own extensions to XQuery that support updates and some of them may not drop
>their implementations once the W3C recommendation is finally made (HTML all
>over again).

I would say that keeping pressure on the W3C to have updates in XQuery is 
the right way to go. I think that the W3C is likely to be responsive, and 
there are certainly vendors on the WG that want to make this happen. Send 
feedback to the following mailing list:


Remember that nobody is obligated to respond to anything on xml-dev, so our 
comments list is the right place to post if you want to put pressure on us.



News | XML in Industry | Calendar | XML Registry
Marketplace | Resources | MyXML.org | Sponsors | Privacy Statement

Copyright 2001 XML.org. This site is hosted by OASIS