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   RE: [xml-dev] What does SOAP really add?

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On Sun, 2002-04-21 at 17:21, Joshua Allen wrote:
> > Is the out-of-box interop just for RPC-style SOAP (which is my present
> > understanding) or for messaging as well?
> Well, first I want to clarify that I do not see the difference as being
> RPC vs. Messaging.  People do Async RPC *via* messaging all the time.  I
> think it is more about.
>[...extensive discussion of various modes...]
> People deploy systems that do #2 but never do #1, and they deploy web
> services that do #1 but never #2.  And of course, people deploy systems
> that do both.  Considering that SOAP is the default out-of-box way for
> Biztalk and BEA Weblogic (and a number of other EAI products) to hook up
> to messaging transports, then you might be surprised how much use is
> being gotten from SOAP in non-RPC scenarios.

I'm happy to acknowledge that RPC and messaging form a spectrum, not a
binary choice.  The existence of a spectrum does not, however, mean that
interoperability is possible across that spectrum, and my understanding
is that interoperability lurks primarily at the RPC end of the spectrum.

> > So everybody's doing it?  That's really not a sufficient answer to
> > people who aren't afraid of working with markup.
> That's Adam's point, though.  Even if *you* aren't afraid of working
> with markup, you often end up working with people who are.  I mean, the
> whole reason we use markup is because we have to work with people who
> won't use all of our proprietary binary data formats, right?  
> [...much about shipping systems, customers, etc...]

I don't mind that people want to have tools to do their work, any more
than I object to people who hire general contractors to build their
houses and can't be bothered to glance at Fine Homebuilding.

However, as a plumber/electrician/[pick your trade metaphor], I have to
worry about the kind of work that general contractors do. BEA,
Microsoft, et al. seem to be selling package deals to programmers much
like contractors sell houses to customers, all connected to similar
infrastructure.  As a plumber, I have a different kind of interest in
the quality, longevity, and gilding of the pipes.  Copper-painted
plastic just isn't copper.

Do people care about the kinds of pipes in their house?  Yes and no.  Do
plumbers wish people cared more?  I suspect pretty strongly that they
do.  A certain amount of repair work over time is to be expected, but
houses with live-in plumbers fixing leaks all the time aren't typically
considered hot real estate.

I'm not very interested in living in the Web Services castle at the

Simon St.Laurent
Ring around the content, a pocket full of brackets
Errors, errors, all fall down!


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