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Hmm, I simply suggested that the self-proclaimed "defenders of markup" are way too quick to take offense and are annoyingly reactive whenever the phrase "data model" is used.
Their love of markup is not misplaced, and I was very careful to avoid insinuating otherwise. Instead, it is their blindly reactive attitude toward anything "data model" that is the problem.
On the other hand, it doesn't surprise me that some people insist on reading into my comments an insult to markup which I took explicit care to avoid. Personally, I find it very sad that discussion of data models is so often shouted down by self-proclaimed "markup defenders" who interject themselves into the conversation; but I take consolation from the fact that this situation exists only on xml-dev. In the real world, data models and markup coexist much more peacefully.
________________________________
From: Simon St.Laurent [mailto:simonstl@simonstl.com]
Sent: Sun 5/25/2003 5:44 AM
To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Syntax + object model
joshuaa@microsoft.com (Joshua Allen) writes:
>> | * markup in absence of data models has glorious features like
>>| entities and DTDs
>>
>> Random potshot. You could fruitfully open a discussion of what DTDs
>> do and don't, but casual denigration from a position of ignorance
>> isn't helping you to make a point.
>
>Did it ever occur to you that I might actually be *acknowledging* the
>value of DTDs and entities in absence of data model? Sheeeeeeshhh...
That's not very plausible given the context, in which you put those
words into the mouths of people you plainly find annoying:
---------------------------
The real issue here is self-declared defenders of markup complaining
about the need for data models. That's certainly what XML-DEV's
permathread centers on, and leads to all sorts of bizarre comments like
"if you want a data model, don't go near my beautiful XML! Use ASN.1!"
I think everyone who cares has already heard a million times the story:
* markup is very useful even for people who do not care about data
models
* markup in absence of data models has glorious features like entities
and DTDs
* markup is misunderstood and underappreciated
* people who can understand and appreciate markup are saltier than you
Years have passed, and syntax and data model are coexisting peacefully.
But there are still those people who will hear the words "data model"
and will launch into attack like a mother bear defending her young.
----------------------------
Email is certainly lousy for sorting out tone, but I think you protest
others protestations too much.
--
Simon St.Laurent
Ring around the content, a pocket full of brackets
Errors, errors, all fall down!
http://simonstl.com -- http://monasticxml.org
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