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   No markup language can't do it all (not even SVG)

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> The toolkit I liked using was version 3 of Sun's
> NeWS toolkit (TNT).
> Earlier versions put a lot of people off and were
> less elegant.

  Well, if you want to check out a modern toolkit that
combines SVG, XUL, XSF-FO, XHTML and more in an
all-in-one package I invite you to check out
Extensible Avalon/Application Markup Language (XAML) -
the new thingy from Microsoft upcoming in Windows
Longhorn 2009. Note, that although everything is
vector graphics based Microsoft goes way beyound SVG
and - suprise, suprise - includes a pre-built

> In principle at least one ought to be able to come
> close to this with SVG.  You'd want a language in 
> whch pieces of XML (XML literals, if you will) were 
> first-class objects too,
> so just as in C++ you can say,
>     unsigned int i = 3;
>     String sock_colour = "Argyle";
> so you should be able to say
>     XML element name = <name>Simon</name>;
> or
>     XML element svg:rect = <rect ..... />

  That's a great idea. I have also proposed the same
idea some years ago in my XUL compact syntax (non-XML
syntax) study available online @

  If I may repost an example from the "allow
user-defined pattern" section:

addressbox = hbox
  label .value "City:"
  textbox city
  label .value "State:"
  textbox state .cols 2
  label .value "Zipcode:"
  textbox zip .cols 5

>>> SVG is markup for rich 2D graphics. 
>>> XUL is markup for rich widgets (e.g. windows, 
>>> wizards, dialogs, trees,
>>> datagrids, splitters, menus, toolbars, and so
>>> on).
> Rich widgets aren't created out of thin air,
> they're created using rich 2D graphics.
> I think we're in agreement :-)

  Well, everything is created using graphics. However,
what's the point of X(HTML)? Why not use SVG instead?
What's the point of XSL-FO? Why not use SVG instead?
What's the point of MathML? Why not use SVG instead?
and so on.

  Anyway, XUL and SVG don't compete in the same way
that X(HTML) and SVG don't compete. For further
details how everything fits together I invite you to
check out my talk titled 

  * "Luxor: The "Linux Kernel" for Desktop Apps -
Uniting XUL, SVG, HTML, Velocity, Web Start, XSL/T,
Python and more" online @

  * "Spice Up Your XML UIs with SVG: Create High-End
2D Graphics Using XML" online @

   - Gerald

PS: Note, that I've also written a Batik SVG plug-in
for the Luxor XUL Toolkit. See
http://petra.sourceforge.net/svg.html   Also note that
I promote SVG whenever I can. I just don't believe in
SVG-RCC and building windowing toolkits using XEvents,
SVG-RCC, JavaScript and whatever. Anyway, if you
believe in SVG-RCC can anyone point me to a killer app
in 10000 % SVG such as a browser (e.g. Mozilla
Firefox) or a dev studio (e.g. ActiveState Komodo) or
a RSS news reader (e.g. NewsMonster)?

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