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On Jun 8, 2004, at 4:46 AM, Alaric B Snell wrote:
> This 'flexibility' isn't something new to XML, it's inherent in any
> format that uses some kind of tagged values; including things like
> TIFF and PNG image files. And MIME headers, and SMTP email messages.
> Nothing special about XML in this respect! XML fans seem to have
> similar marketing ideas to Microsoft, picking up a good idea from
> elsewhere and claiming to have invented it ;-)
Fair enough. I agree that it is idea of labeled trees that supplies
most of the real power in XML, and acknowledge the point that other
ways of exchanging labeled data work for the use case I'm talking
about. XML's biggest real advantage is the network effect -- it's
supported on every commercially viable language and platform.
> I think agreed schemas will *increase* reliability of systems.
No disputing that! The problem, as I think Elliotte Harold pointed
out, is that it is extremely difficult to get humans to agree on much
of anything when the costs of the agreement are short term and tangible
and the benefits are long term and hypothetical.
> The objection to this seems to be "Oh, so your system dies the second
> it sees somebody's private extension?" - which is in no way implied by
> schemas being agreed between the communicating parties. And for very
> large scale systems, that 'agreement' can be as simple as saying "This
> site publishes data in the format documented _here_"
That's not agreement it's assertion. It works when everyone agrees on
the semantics implied by the labels. RSS is a fine example of this
working in practice -- producers pick which variation they want to
publish, and consumers sort out the differences among them, handling
all sorts of ad hoc intermediate and experimental forms along the way
because at the end of the day everything is being stuffed into the
well-known semantics of a newsfeed. Things get interesting in RSS-land
when the same label (namespaced or not) does not have the same
semantics, because of different date formats, different assumptions
about well-formedness or embedded markup within the label, and so on.
This leads to the foundation hope of the Semantic Web -- we don't have
to agree, I'll just publish what I assert about the syntax and
semantics of the data are, and you can follow the chains of assertion
back to something you recognize, and use third-party metadata
assertions about my own attributes (such as competence and integrity)
of my assertions...and sometime before the heat death of the universe
you can infer what to do with the data I publish :-) As I said at the
beginning of all this, I hypothesize that this will actually work
within organizations where the meaning of labels can be quickly mapped
back to something concrete, and it won't work on the open Web where
"meaning" fades off into greater and greater abstraction and
contention.
- References:
- RE: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: "Howard Katz" <howardk@fatdog.com>
- RE: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Elliotte Rusty Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Elliotte Rusty Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Alaric B Snell <alaric@alaric-snell.com>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Henrik Martensson <henrik.martensson@bostream.nu>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Elliotte Rusty Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Robert Koberg <rob@koberg.com>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Elliotte Rusty Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: "Thomas B. Passin" <tpassin@comcast.net>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Robert Koberg <rob@koberg.com>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: "Thomas B. Passin" <tpassin@comcast.net>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Henrik Martensson <henrik.martensson@bostream.nu>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: "Thomas B. Passin" <tpassin@comcast.net>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Rick Marshall <rjm@zenucom.com>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] Semantic Web permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Michael Champion <mc@xegesis.org>
- Re: [xml-dev] The triples datamodel -- was Re: [xml-dev] SemanticWeb permathread, iteration n+1
- From: Alaric B Snell <alaric@alaric-snell.com>
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