RE: [xml-dev] Validation - a history.

["Len Bullard" <cbullard@hiwaay.net>]

That's an interesting point of view, Dave.

SGML with a DTD worked too.  Those value setting properties made parts of
the trinity work.  That was important to the point of view that Charles was
arguing for at the time.  Since the poster decided to emphasize the debates
between Dr. Goldfarb and Jon et al, it seems fair to remember what it is to
be an ISO standards editor:  scrupulous correctness.  Also, since arguments
like "JSON is Just XML with curly brackets", it is fair to point out that
the SGML Declaration was used to declare delimiters, not the DTD per se.

XML without DTDs do work just as SGML without DTDs worked in the sense that
as long as there were other means to explicitly declare the system specific
semantics of tags (think, href is a hardwired attribute used by the Web
System), then it doesn't matter.  OTOH, since there are also problems with
using other declarations leading to XML reserved names, namespaces, and so
on, one can't quite make the case that the SGML On the Web ERB and Co got it
all right.  Now that there are languages that aren't necessarily HTML or XML
but do use other parts of the web plumbing, it is worth pointing out what
pieces you need to replicate to do that.

But frankly, I hate to see Jon and others grind on Charles like that.  He
pulled the train and kept it going when the rest of us were still trying to
figure out what a f**kin' hyperlink was.  That's classless. He's a good man
and he did heroic work that the rest of us are still benefiting from in ways
large, small, and very profitably. Since they choose to do it in public
speeches quoted here and elsewhere, I'll grind right back and that's fair
too.  

len


From: Dave Pawson [mailto:davep@dpawson.co.uk] 
 
Len Bullard wrote:
> Which to be fair, if one understood the other parts of the SGML standards
> trinity, HyTime and DSSSL, without the DTD the relationships started to
fall
> apart and technical features began to go away.   As we watch the
committees
> who have struggled mightily to put some of them back adding to the
> disingenouous 27 pages ever since, one understands why Dr. Goldfarb was
> reluctant to let go of the preexisting work.
> 
> BTW, delimiters etc, are in the Declaration, not the DTD as Jon says.
Those
> were always capable of being decoupled.

Many people seem to have followed the pragmatic | less informed line 
though Len?

XML without a schema 'works'?
That seems to be what Jon implies?