Re: [xml-dev] Fixing what's broke

[Max Toro <maxtoroq@gmail.com>]

> I've put in a number of posts what I think the benefits of the change are. I
> also think that in a mobile and wireless world, especially where we have
> small intelligent devices like body area networks, zigbee and, in the
> future, corn flake packets telling us when they're empty that we can't just
> assume that memory is free, and bandwidth unlimited.
>
> What do you see as the benefits of always insisting that everyone does
> <trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>1</trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>?

application/x-www-form-urlencoded and JSON are more condensed
representations, if that's what you are looking for.
If you change XML to fit every possible use case it's going to make it worse.
--
Max Toro



On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Pete Cordell <petexmldev@codalogic.com> wrote:
> Original Message From: "Max Toro"
>
>>> <trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>1</>
>
>> What is the value of this change ?
>
> I've put in a number of posts what I think the benefits of the change are. I
> also think that in a mobile and wireless world, especially where we have
> small intelligent devices like body area networks, zigbee and, in the
> future, corn flake packets telling us when they're empty that we can't just
> assume that memory is free, and bandwidth unlimited.
>
> What do you see as the benefits of always insisting that everyone does
> <trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>1</trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pete Cordell
> Codalogic Ltd
> Interface XML to C++ the easy way using C++ XML
> data binding to convert XSD schemas to C++ classes.
> Visit http://codalogic.com/lmx/ or http://www.xml2cpp.com
> for more info
>
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Pete Cordell <petexmldev@codalogic.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> When I was first introduced to XML, very much with a data-oriented hat on
>> where you have lots of small values, my initial response to seeing
>> something
>> like:
>>
>>
>> <trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>1</trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>
>>
>> was "are you kidding? Next...".
>>
>> But there wasn't really a "Next" then so I've had to keep taking the
>> medicine and get used to it. I imagine that many deciding between XML and
>> JSON will have much the same opinion as I did, but they now have the JSON
>> option.
>>
>> I think simply doing the following goes a long way to fixing this:
>>
>> <trajectory:initialVelocityVarianceCoefficient>1</>
>>
>> I don't think we should go any further. At best we are going to save 3
>> more
>> characters, the parser doesn't have to change much to do it as it already
>> has all the information it needs to fill in the missing end tag for higher
>> layers if needed, and strings that have significant trailing white space
>> are
>> properly delimited.
>>
>> Pete Cordell
>> Codalogic Ltd
>> Interface XML to C++ the easy way using C++ XML
>> data binding to convert XSD schemas to C++ classes.
>> Visit http://codalogic.com/lmx/ or http://www.xml2cpp.com
>> for more info
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ramkumar Menon"
>> <ramkumar.menon@gmail.com>
>> To: <xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Fixing what's broke
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hey Gurus,
>>>
>>> Let me put the question other way around.
>>> May I ask if the success of XML is attributed to its verbosity?
>>>
>>> Introducing terse but complex syntax like skipping/stripping end tags
>>> sound like 're-engineering' a traffic junction to have no lights and
>>> assuming everyone understands when to stop/move.
>>> You save on traffic lights, but your traffic slows down. We can always
>>> point people to a detailed manual instructing how to operate, but yeah,
>>> how
>>> many humans do that diligently.
>>> XML is for the general public. Let the humans do their job, and the
>>> parsers theirs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ram
>>>
>>> 1. Tools help in minimizing the time required to crank out such verbose
>>> data. This has matured over the last few years.
>>> 2. Well designed and written XML is not visually challenging.
>>> 3. Equating terseness and simplicity is tricky.
>>> 4. In-memory representations can represent the same data in a more terse
>>> form Binary, Blah and what not!
>>> 5. With such a broad audience for its consumption, any new NextXML will
>>> bloat up gradually with requests and requirements.
>>> 6. Storage is getting cheaper [or am I dreaming?]. Let those tags come
>>> in!
>>> 7. [Joke] It depends on how you look at it. [Imagine yourself wearing
>>> "Red" lens glasses and staring at a "Green" light at a traffic junction!.
>>> Honk! Honk! behind you.]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/9/2010 12:22 PM, Pete Cordell wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Original Message From: "Liam R E Quin"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I'd suggest doing something like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <Book:Book>
>>>>>> <Book:Author>John Grisham</>
>>>>>> <Book:Title>The Case of the Hidden Claw</>
>>>>>> </Book:Book>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I wasn't clear. Suppose I now write,
>>>>> <Book:Book>
>>>>> <Book:Title>John Grisham</>
>>>>> <Book:Author>The Case of the Hidden Claw</>
>>>>> </Book:Book>
>>>>>
>>>>> How are you going to detect my error?
>>>>
>>>> I'll confess it did take me a long tome to spot the error. However, I
>>>> tend to use Visual Studio to edit XML files. I imagine its at the bottom
>>>> of
>>>> the food chain, but it does automatically put in the end tag so I'm not
>>>> sure
>>>> I would have spotted the error from that.
>>>>
>>>> I would also like to believe that my schema would point the error out to
>>>> me. Please don't go disillusioning me about that :-)
>>>>
>>>> Pete Cordell
>>>> Codalogic Ltd
>>>> Interface XML to C++ the easy way using C++ XML
>>>> data binding to convert XSD schemas to C++ classes.
>>>> Visit http://codalogic.com/lmx/ or http://www.xml2cpp.com
>>>> for more info
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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