RE: [xml-dev] Who's in charge: the markup library or the user ofthe mark

[cbullard@hiwaay.net]

Absolutely.  For an active and important program, I opened the CDRL  
and it cited XML.  Then I looked and the DTD cited can't support the  
document type itself (an MWO).  The good news is the owning agency  
immediately verified it, got the waiver and we delivered SGML.  The  
other good news is Arbortext can support that.  Woe unto users of XML  
tools that can't because a fair amount of mission-critical docs are  
still ISO 8879 docs.   Woe unto the XML skilled who didn't bother with  
the parent language when this happens.

And good for us old folks who did and have. :)

Exercising both XML and XSL for a new version of a spec has proven ...  
stimulating.   There are are predictable disconnects when two  
different organizations own the GFI that have to be used as integrated  
pieces by the contractor.  I'm sure you've seen all of this before too.

And then there are the little XSL tools one can build to help at  
different stages of the process such as extracting id/idrefs with the  
surrounding titles into tables for the cross-checks.  I'm almost a  
markup guy again.

The deep frustration is to see markup as an end-process item because  
they use Word instead of getting the XML done early and often.   We  
old CALS types really do need to help right the ship we built.

len

Quoting Betty Harvey <harvey@eccnet.com>:

>
>> What Michael said.
>>
>> Situations like this are why for mil contracting in a logistics-led
>> project,
>> the schemas and DTDs are GFI with the schemas citable and contractually
>> governing and the XSL provided.  There is a flaw in this system in that
>> the
>> XSL-FO, for example, inserts boilerplate content and if not precisely
>> aligned with the governing schema or DTD, inserts information not covered
>> by
>> contract except indirectly.   When a new version of either is introduced,
>> one assumes the natural language specification is a gasket for semantic
>> gaps
>> but this can fail in practice.
>
> This isn't always a safe bet either because Government contracting
> officials will unwittingly put boiler plate text into contracts citing
> obsolete Military specifications because they are modeling a contract
> based on a contract 15 years ago.  I still get the occasional call asking
> for help with MIL-PRF-87268 and JCALS! The unknowing contractor will sign
> then contract and ask later what these specifications actually mean.
>
> The Air Force still writes all their tech manual contracts requiring 38784
> SGML to be delivered.  In practice companies delivering technical manuals
> to the Air Force deliver 38784C SGML to to the Air Force but in-house
> their processes do not rely on the SGML.  It is only a deliverable.
>
>>
>> Trust but test and validate before verifying.  Saves a lot of stress.
>>
>
> Wise words!!!
>
>> len
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Costello, Roger L. [mailto:costello@mitre.org]
>> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:59 AM
>> To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
>> Subject: [xml-dev] Who's in charge: the markup library or the user of the
>> markup library?
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Let Lib = a library of markup.
>>
>> Let App = markup that uses L.
>>
>> Who's in charge: Lib or App?
>>
>> EXAMPLE
>>
>> Suppose Lib = an XML Schema for radios. It defines a complexType that
>> provides a framework for radio data:
>>
>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>> <schema xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema";
>>                   targetNamespace="http://www.radio.org";
>>                   xmlns:radio="http://www.radio.org";
>>                  elementFormDefault="qualified">
>>
>>     <complexType name="AbstractRadioType" abstract="true">
>>         <sequence>
>>             <element name="name" type="string" minOccurs="0"/>
>>             <element name="description" type="string" minOccurs="0"/>
>>         </sequence>
>>         <attribute ref="radio:id"/>
>>     </complexType>
>>
>>     <attribute name="id" type="ID"/>
>>
>> </schema>
>>
>> The creators of this schema advertise it heavily and talk about how you
>> too
>> can become a "radio application" (when you create a schema that uses the
>> radio schema your schema is a radio application). The creators develop a
>> "radio parser" that parses any XML instance document using the
>> http://www.radio.org namespace. The creators talk about their vision of
>> creating a worldwide web of radio applications -- a radio web.
>>
>> Clearly the radio schema wants to be in control.
>>
>> Now, suppose App = an XML Schema for aircrafts. One part of an aircraft is
>> a
>> radio, so the aircraft schema imports the radio schema and uses the
>> AbstractRadioType complexType.
>>
>> The creators of the radio schema considers the aircraft schema to be a
>> radio
>> application and another member of the radio web.
>>
>> Who's in charge, the aircraft schema or the radio schema?
>>
>> It seems to me that it is the epitome of arrogance for the radio schema to
>> think it is in charge. That said, perhaps I am not seeing things clearly.
>> What do you think; is the radio schema really in charge?
>>
>> /Roger
>>
>> P.S. My radio example is fictitious and purely to illustrate the question.
>>
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>
>
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> Betty Harvey                         | Phone:  410-787-9200  FAX: 9830
> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. |
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