Re: OXR/OR Mapping Was RE: [xml-dev] Native XML Interfaces

[Uche Ogbuji <uche@ogbuji.net>]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, David Lee <dlee@calldei.com> wrote:

I'll take your dollar and double-down.

 

  " The problem is that developers faced with XML tend to learn only one toolkit... but it tends to be the most complicated one."

 

Given no assumptions about the problem ;)

What IS the easiest toolkit that you would suggest specifically not knowing the problem ?

(and define "simple" and "complex" from a novice perspective).

Sorry, it's not quite recess, though I'm sure I wouldn't mind a bit of recess.  So I'm not going to define "simple" and "complex".  You'll have to use your definitions, or the dictionary's will do.

Of course I think Amara is the easiest, but then I'm biased.  I think Python's ElementTree is pretty easy as well, though it does have some baffling quirks with respect to Unicode and mixed content.  LINQ also seems pretty easy, though I haven't done as much with it.

As for the Java world, I have no idea, but I do know that Java seems to be complex by default.  Perhaps just using Jython or Groovy's facilities is the best bet.

 

Now suppose you (behind Door A) DO know the problem but are somewhat ignorant about XML and need to pick a tool ...

Hang on.  Let's remember the point in opposition here: generating a schema from an XML file, generating a data binding from that and then deriving from and using the resulting classes.  I'm skeptical that anyone will make it through that journey without picking up enough about XML to have just profited from the simpler tools in question.

 

Some toolkits may be *too simple* (say dont support namespaces well enough ...)

I've not considered such tools myself in the reckoning.  After all, there is always grep, so we could *really* short-cut the thread if we like.

 

So you at least have to know about namespaces and which tools support those, and what they are enough to determine if your XML needs that.   What about data size ?  How big is your XML ?  How much memory is required for ToolX to handle your largest document ?

Well substitute SQL or JSON or even plain strings in the above, and you're left with the same question, so I don't see it as anything extraordinary with XML.

 

How about lots of documents ? Can you load them all at once ? or do you have to handle them sequentially ?

"How about lots of databases?  Can you load them all at once? or do you have to handle them sequentially?"

Again I think you're taking general-purpose concerns and somehow suggesting they're XML-specific.

 

Do you need streaming ?

Consider C and the various arguments to fopen.  Same consideration applies.

 

Could you define in one sentance what Streaming is?

Back to recess?

Could you define in once sentence what a mapping is?

 

Could you identify which tools and what subsets of features support Streaming?

And for an encore, recite the U section of the Encyclopaedia!

I could go on and on, after you, but I think the above gives the pattern.

 I argue you *do* actually need to know quite a  bit of specialist knowledge of XML to answer the above, and if you dont

answer the above you are prety much guaranteed to pick an inappropriate tool.

Well, most of the above doesn't seem relevant to answer in the general case, so that seems a very strange conclusion to me.

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