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Re: [xml-dev] XML vs JSON

I do not consider myself an "expert" in the comparison of JSON and XML, but I thought I would offer my own observations. In my work with UBL we have been pressured to support both syntaxes, much to my chagrin and reluctance. Accordingly, I proposed the JSON serialization of UBL that is being successfully adopted in our community, but also criticized by others in its approach. This has helped me to better understand my personal feelings about this topic. Your mileage may vary.

I have not reached the same conclusion as you that "JSON's major use case is in the use within REST". As the JavaScript Object Notation, I understand JSON's major use case is in AJAX-like interactions between programs and the JavaScript in browsers. In such low-threshold and low-latency environments, the mating of in-memory data structures between the server and the browser puts the burden on the server to arrange the information in a way that spoon-feeds it to the browser for quick action. There is a burden to format the information as needed, but that burden is borne by the high-speed server rather than the low-speed browser.

I worry that programmers have conflated their personal "ease of use" with this targeted benefit that low-speed browsers enjoy by having their memory structures quickly populated by such a syntax. The browser becomes an extension of the server. There is incredibly tight coupling in such a solution.

But, horses for courses, a syntax should be used as fit for purpose and not be used as a convenience for programmers. A programmer's task is to make their user's job easier, not to make their own job easier.

And I posit that JSON is fit for purpose only for quickly populating browser memory structures for JavaScript manipulation in a tight coupling between sender and receiver. I claim it is not fit for purpose as a generalized information serialization format where decoupling between sender and receiver is paramount. It may be a convenience for programmers, but it is not fit for generalized information processing data flows.

In my comparison I have ruled out JSON as a candidate for expressing mixed content (sibling element and text content). I hope it is accepted that generalized text processing of mixed content remains the domain of XML and such content cannot be efficiently expressed in JSON syntax. I think the only logical discussion is the comparison of XML element content (all elements contain only element children and possibly irrelevant indentation white space) and JSON structures.

Such is the case for OASIS UBL - ISO/IEC 19845:2015 ... all content is element content. The UBL XML [1] and the UBL JSON [2] serializations are guaranteed isomorphic because the JSON is not derived from the XML. Rather, both are derived from a common Core Component Technical Specification (CCTS) Version 2.01 [3]. CCTS is a modeling approach of business information entities published by the United Nations trade facilitation group.

Key in my mind to the difference is the coupling of systems I mentioned earlier. I was taught when learning SGML that generalized information processing supports the decoupling of systems. Maintaining independence of one processing system from another partner processing system allows either processing system to change without impacting its partner.

You cite REST and the REST interface is an implementation of such decoupling between systems. So I feel XML very much has a role in REST approaches, and it very much did before JSON came along. There is nothing about REST that favours one syntax representation or the other. In my mind it comes back to the features of the syntax used over REST and the fit for purpose. So I think any discussion of REST is orthogonal to a discussion of XML and JSON.

I see the purpose of an independent syntax between dissimilar systems is the unambiguous representation of information. A recipient can extract from the syntax all components of the data without using any subject-matter awareness. Once so obtained, the recipient then applies the subject-matter awareness (the semantics) to the information independent of whatever syntax that was used.

There may be intermediaries between the sender and the recipient. In the business circles where UBL is used, an auditor is an example of an intermediary. It is critical that independent of both the sender and the recipient that an auditor be able to inspect the content. This, too, is a two-step process: teasing out the information from the syntax in a manner independent of the semantics of the information, and then applying whatever semantics is needed on the extracted content. The auditor's semantics may be different than the trading partners exchanging the information, and so the auditor needs to unambiguously identify the content in order to apply their own semantics.

XML achieves this semantic-free syntactic identification of content by the unambiguous labelling using element names and attribute names. The (dreaded) namespace concept is crucial in creating world-wide unambiguous labels, but let's not get into that discussion. I am a big fan of namespaces because they solve this ambiguity issue, regardless of whether people like or dislike their syntax.

It has been my experience that JSON users seek to abandon the labeling of content by inferring the identification of content. The in-memory representation of information in one system is instantly conveyed to the in-memory representation of that information in the other system. This can only be done by pre-agreement between sender and recipient. Instantly this engages the need to interpret the meaning of content *at the syntax level* and not only at the semantics level. Instantly this disenfranchises third parties that may, perhaps even for legal reasons, need to inspect the content and determine what information was intended to be conveyed in the absence of an unambiguous label. These third parties may not know all of the implicit agreements on information representation short-cuts or assumptions that lie in that in-memory structure.

The role of syntax is the identifying of the information being conveyed, independent of the semantic interpretation done by the programs that act on the information.

Accordingly, my approach to serializing CCTS-based data models in JSON is wholly based on the explicit labelling of content. This allows me to write transliteration applications between XML and JSON syntax for all CCTS-based models (UBL or any other) without any awareness whatsoever of the semantics behind the syntax. Such an approach with JSON lead me to the use of objects and keys for distinguishing sibling content under different labels, and the use of arrays for distinguishing sibling content under the same label. Addressing the content becomes rote and semantic-free through the dot and array notation working one's way through the unique key labels and the counted like-named siblings. In effect, it is a generalized syntax using JSON notation.

This has led to criticism of the approach as being too verbose and not in the spirit of JSON for programmers. The actual quote in [4] is "processing code is a mess". I feel the response [5] to this successfully defended the design decisions in the CCTS approach to all of the points made in the analysis. Regardless, this attitude towards JSON has led the group of programmers to promote an alternative localized serialization of UBL in JSON that is based on agreed short-cuts and associations. Thus, a third party inspecting such serializations must know, a priori, what those assumptions are.

I acknowledge the same can be said for assumptions about the semantics of information between the sender and recipient after the information has been teased out of the syntax. But that is not my point. My point is that the syntax itself should be a semantic-free labeling of the content for the unambiguous transmission of the data from the program of the sender to the program of the recipient. There should be no semantic triggers in the syntax that would impact on how the information in the syntax is to be identified. Semantic interpretation should only happen after the information is identified.

The tight coupling between the server and the browser that lead to developing JSON promotes a tight coupling between sender and recipient when JSON is used for generalized information interchange. This, in turn, promotes the need for prior agreement and a tight coupling of representations in the computer systems of sender and recipient. Independence between systems is lost. In fact, the information interchange is no longer generalized. So JSON is fine when the information interchange does not have to be generalized, but it has to be coerced in order to be used in a generalized fashion.

And many real-world scenarios of information interchange must be generalized in order to decouple the systems involved in that interchange. The international interchange of business information is the other end of the wide spectrum to the server populating a browser's in-memory data structures to speed up the browser's response to user keyboard interaction.

So to summarize my overall personal perspective: if JSON has to be coerced into having the same expressive generalized labelling features as XML already has, what is the benefit of having used JSON? It *can* work as I have shown it to work for UBL, but it was not designed to work in the fashion needed to be generalized. How does reinventing the XML processing stack for JSON advance the objective of the interchange of data between dissimilar decoupled systems? And XML already handles mixed content and element content.

I keep getting back to horses for courses: use XML for generalized interchange and use JSON for the tight binding between systems sharing identical in-memory representations.

I firmly believe the job of the programmer is to take on the burden to make the user's task easier or better. It isn't responsible for a programmer to take the easy way if it adds effort to the users or takes away features from the users. My father, a programmer, taught me this long ago.

I hope this perspective is helpful to your thoughts in this regard, Mukul. No doubt others will feel differently.

. . . . . . . . Ken

[1] http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/UBL-2.1.html
[2] http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/UBL-2.1-JSON/v1.0/UBL-2.1-JSON-v1.0.html
[3] http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/Business-Document-NDR/v1.1/Business-Document-NDR-v1.1.html
[4] https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-comment/201705/msg00007.html
[5] https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-comment/201705/msg00011.html

At 2017-08-01 17:04 +0530, Mukul Gandhi wrote:
I don't intend to spark a bitter debate between XML & JSON, where the outcome of debate is win of one over other. Rather, I wish to present in a friendly manner, according to me, where these two technologies differ.

When talking about designing REST services, JSON seems to clearly win. The whole software world seems to be biased in favour of JSON it seems, for this criteria. Although I have read, that in many cases REST services can use XML instead of JSON. I think, JSON's major use case is in the use within REST.

Having worked quite a bit with Android mobile apps, that framework by default relies heavily on XML. I haven't seen JSON being used by default in that area. Although, JSON is many times used in feeding and fetching JSON data from various kinds of services (remote REST services, local API calls etc), in Android apps.

XML when considering other technologies in combination, like XML Schema and XML databases, have a scale close to RDBMSs. JSON is no where near this.

Any other thoughts from the experts here?

Mukul Gandhi

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