Hmm - good points. I like the idea of setting up a list for these folks to
create community, test to see if there are common interests, and to create a
fertile group for them to get organized and see what if anything they desire
(including simply to field a candidate if they like). Any formal request
for a change in board structure along the proposed lines would more
naturally come from, and be the result of, such a group process. Nice and
simple. (Personally, I think they'd be wise to seek such an outcome).
I don't see why not an OASIS list - it seems like a relevant and official
sort of activity to me.
Incidentally, I just used the term "indie" because I'd been typing on my
blackberry and would do anything to shorten words - not because I meant to
imply independance.
Thanks,
- Dan
==================================================
| Daniel J. Greenwood, Esq.
| Director, mit E-Commerce Architecture Program
| Lecturer, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
| 77 Massachusetts Avenue, Room 7-231
| Cambridge, MA 02139
| http://ecitizen.mit.edu
| or http://www.civics.com
| Mobile: 617-851-0412
| Desk: 617-868-1746
|
==================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Gutentag" <>
To: "Daniel Greenwood" <>
Cc: <>; <>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [chairs] Individual members representation?
>
>
> Daniel Greenwood wrote:
> > Eduardo, you mentioned "As to 'reports back from the board', below: are
you implying
> > that company members receive reports back from the board? If
> > so, you're mistaken. If you want to receive reports from the
> > Board, you can read, like anybody else, the Board minutes."
> >
> > I think the reality is that people who serve on boards like this are
reps of
> > their companies on an important level. Time spent on boards of industry
associations
> > that I have served on are always considered part of my scope of work -
I didn't/don't
> > (and assume you and other do not) take vacation days to serve - true?
And I got/get
> > reimbursed for travel, etc from the company that is has lots of say re:
my job
> > description, my deliverables, my professional priorities, etc, etc. And
as such,
> > performance reviews, strategy sessions and general activity reports all
reflect
> > and support the contention that on a "real politik" level, industry
employee reps
> > are reps of their corporation
>
> all of the above is basically true, and I wouldn't deny it for a second.
>
> > and serve the interests of (and report back to) the
> > principal for whom they are an employed agent of.
>
> the above is not necessarily the case. Although I'm sorely tempted to
> talk about myself and my predecessors in the Board, that would surely
> sound and look like grandstanding, so I won't, but I can attest to
> witnessing more than one case of employess from other companies acting
> for the benefit of the OASIS membership in general and not that of their
> employers in particular. The culture of this Board strongly encourages
this
> attitude.
>
> > This does not mean copmanies in
> > general get reports, but it does suggest a model that may be useful for
indie members.
> >
> > There is nothing wrong with any of the above - in fact, it is helpful
to have
> > balanced representation from the key big industry players (and as you
said, people
> > vote with that in mind). The legal technicalities (vote for
individuals, etc) you
> > mentioned are interesting, but don't tell the full story of how the
power and politics
> > work.
> >
> > Given that, why not have some representation for indie members
specifically?
>
> I'm not opposed in principle. I just don't see how it would work. There
are a
> couple of problems. First is the issue of "guaranteeing" slots for an
individual
> member in the Board (BTW, I disagree with the use of "indie" for
individual
> members, since that generally means "independent", but there is no
guarantee
> of independence among our individual members, so I just don't like it),
simply
> because there is currently no process whereby this could be accomplished,
and
> because it's a really slippery slope from there to guaranteeing slots for
> particular corporations or for particular world regions. Where do you
stop?
> What are the criteria? Why not leave this to the wisdom of the electorate?
> (And do please remember that big corporations are just a small percentage
of
> the OASIS voting membership, which is increasingly composed of small user
> companies.Oh, and the assumption that big corporations would not vote for
> individual Board members is probably false, you know...)
>
> Another problem is, of course, whether you would indeed represent the
interests
> of David RR Webber if you were elected to the Board. Would you? Why would
you?
> How do you know what his interests are? Or vice versa, if he were elected?
>
> So if you were to ask me what my recommendation would be (and why would
you?)
> my answer is: get a few individual members together (and the chairs list
> is certainly not the place to do this), establish an email list for such
> (not necessarily an OASIS one), bring in as many individual members as you
> can, elect a candidate and field him/her at the next BoD elections.
>
> I will now go back to enjoying my weekend in the pursuit of other
> interests...
>
>
> >
> > - Dan
> > ===============================
> > | Daniel J. Greenwood, Esq.
> > | Director and Lecturer
> > | The MIT E-Commerce
> > | Architecture Program (ECAP)
> > | Massachusetts
> > | Institute of
> > | Technology
> > | 77 Mass. Avenue, Room 7-231
> > | Cambridge, MA 02139
> > | http://ecitizen.mit.edu
> > | or http://www.civics.com
> > | Mobile: 617-851-0412
> > | Desk: 617-868-1746
> > |
> > ================================
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eduardo Gutentag <>
> > Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:27:44
> > To:David RR Webber <>
> > Cc:Chairs OASIS <>
> > Subject: Re: [chairs] Individual members representation?
> >
> > Interesting ideas, but more in the assumptions they reveal than
> > in their reflections of reality.
> >
> > Board members are elected as individuals, not as representatives
> > of companies. At least that's how theoretically things should
> > be. I'm not sure, of course, whether that's the reality or not,
> > (how many voted for me as myself or as an employee of Sun?)
> > but we Board members are supposed to think in terms of OASIS's
> > interests *above everything else* when functioning as such.
> >
> > Because Board members are elected as individuals, there is in
> > fact no constraints on whether a BoD member is a company
> > employee or an individual member, so if any individual member
> > wants to run for BoD membership, go ahead. In fact, BoD members
> > don't even have to be OASIS members.
> >
> > As to "reports back from the board", below: are you implying
> > that company members receive reports back from the board? If
> > so, you're mistaken. If you want to receive reports from the
> > Board, you can read, like anybody else, the Board minutes.
> >
> > Also, how any of your proposals would help towards working
> > better with ISO et al. is a mystery to me.
> >
> > David RR Webber wrote:
> >
> >>As we are approaching year end some retrospective thoughts and
> >>looks ahead occur.
> >>
> >>Would it make sense to add a Board member who represents all
> >>the individual members?
> >>
> >>Clearly there are large numbers now contributing to every OASIS
> >>team. But only corporate members get to vote and nominate
> >>board members.
> >>
> >>Do we need balance, and would input from individual members help?
> >>Would this help toward working with groups such as ISO in the
> >>future?
> >>
> >>Some ground rules would be needed - and also OASIS would need
> >>to cover expenses for the person - as obviously they do not have
> >>a corporate sponsor. If the person subsequently joined a corporation
> >>would this automatically trigger a new appointment - or could it
> >>be discretionary?
> >>
> >>We could certainly also have a meeting room and feedback area
> >>for individual members via Kavi as another resource.
> >>
> >>Personally as an individual member I would definately value reports
> >>back from the board from an independent member there.
> >>
> >>OK - so I've taken the lid off a large can of worms here, but this
> >>was an itch so I thought I'd better scratch it!
> >>
> >>What are the pro's and con's? Is this workable?
> >>
> >>DW.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Eduardo Gutentag | e-mail:
> Web Technologies and Standards | Phone: +1 510 550 4616 x31442
> Sun Microsystems Inc. |
> W3C AC Rep / OASIS BoD
>
