Re: [chairs] This Old House (OASIS) - Further Response to Peter Brown

++1. I have been waiting for this feature for a long time.

=Drummond 

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Anish Karmarkar <> wrote:

+1 from me as well.

It is indeed a very cool feature. Was implemented in W3C a while ago (as X-Archived-At) and I found it to be very useful.

-Anish

--

On 4/30/2010 7:10 AM, Robin Cover wrote:

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010, bill parducci wrote:

I believe that modern forum features include the ability to interact via

email as well as browser. This not only provides a natural archive

mechanism

that is referenced in each message, but also a reasonable search

mechanism

once you get there.

+1

It's even an Internet standards track protocol:

"The Archived-At Message Header Field"

IETF Standards Track Request for Comments #5064

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5064

In contexts where 'Archived-At' has been implemented, it

appears to be very popular. It allows you to compose email

messages or other documents from your laptop when you

are not connected to the Internet: from your local email

client message box, you can grab the 'Archived-At' URI

for a message and construct a URI reference for the

message that will resolve under DNS+HTTP. No need to

have access to a server in order to ascertain the message

URI in the archive.

It's quite cool (though some would say "obvious", after they become

familiar with the convention).

- Robin

Robin Cover

OASIS, Director of Information Services

Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink

Email: 

Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover

Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/

Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html

Tel: +1 972-296-1783

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010, bill parducci wrote:

I believe that modern forum features include the ability to interact

via email as well as browser. This not only provides a natural archive

mechanism that is referenced in each message, but also a reasonable

search mechanism once you get there.

b

On Apr 30, 2010, at 4:03 AM, Martin Chapman

<> wrote:

Wouldn't it be great if each mail sent to a Tc list includes the url

to the archive location of each mail!

The problem with markmail, as Patrick hints at, is it's a separate

copy. If you locate a mail in markmail, you still have to go into

OASIS archives to get an OASIS URL

-----Original Message-----

From: Patrick Durusau [mailto:]

Sent: 29 April 2010 12:08

To: 

Cc: 

Subject: Re: [chairs] This Old House (OASIS) - Further Response to

Peter Brown

Rob,

Just popped back in to close the office down.

On 4/28/2010 8:06 PM,  wrote:

Patrick Durusau<> wrote on 04/28/2010 07:15:15 PM:

On 4/28/2010 5:11 PM,  wrote:

Oh, I think this is more like saying don't trust a house builder

whose toolbox is not neatly organized. Maybe, maybe not. I think

it is something that would need to be demonstrated, not assumed.

OK, how many examples would count for a demonstration?

Let's see if we can start with one good one.

OK, let's start at the OASIS homepage and go to the Committees by

Name page.

Limiting ourselves to active TCs.

Looking at the right hand menu bar, if you wanted to check on the

most recent activity of a TC, does

it seem likely you would choose the menu choice labeled "minutes?"

Pick any three TCs and see what result you get.

BTW, while you are at each of those TCs, you might want to see what

you get under Documents as well.

You might want to also check on the FAQ link as well for the TCs.

Having navigation links that consistently resolve to something

useful for all TCs isn't that high of a

bar.

Having TCs consistently store their documents so that members of the

public can find them, isn't that

high of a bar.

Give me a reasonable number and I will post them to this list, naming

names as it were.

Here's one to get us started (although this is true across all TCs

that I am aware of):

Follow this link to get ODF email archives:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/messages.php

Now, follow this link to get ODF email archives:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/

Do you notice anything different about those two pages?

(Hint: You can search using MarkMail with the second one.)

From the public-facing perspective, the later URL is what is pointed

to

from the TC's public-facing home page, so that is what I expect the

public would use. The former URL is linked to from the

password-protected Kavi page, so the public would not stumble on that

page. The exception would be a TC member posted an email with a

hyperlink to a URL from the private

repository. Is that what you are seeing? I know we had a problem

similar to that with doc repository links a while back.

Missing my point.

The email documents in both cases are identical.

Why shouldn't TC members when they are logged in have the same email

search capabilities (MarkMail) as

a member of the public?

Doesn't it seem odd that we would point TC members, who have logged

in, to less search capabilities

for email?

Err, would having a uniform way to access email archives, hopefully

MarkMail, be too much trouble?

I assume that, for IPR documentation reasons at least, OASIS will

always need to store their own copy of the emails. But I wonder if a

URL rewrite rule in Apache could simply redirect the "private" URLs to

the public copy? That would handle historic uses of the private URLs

as well as future ones.

Well, yes, the MarkMail archive is a separate copy, probably for IPR

reasons.

But that doesn't mean we need separate pages for search

capabilities. cf the default public page which

has both.

Hope you are at the start of a great day!

Patrick

-Rob

--

Patrick Durusau



Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34

Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)

Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300

Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1,

13250-5 (Topic Maps)