Re: [dita] Conref range: Is constraint on last member of range necessary oruseful?

Hi Eliot,

>Determinism only applies when there is optionality.

Optionality is merely one way to create
indeterminacy. 

From the URL I sent:

>given an initial b
the XML processor cannot know which b
in the model is being matched without looking ahead to see which element
follows the b. 

That certainly describes your example
below.

Michael Priestley, Senior Technical
Staff Member (STSM)

Lead IBM DITA Architect 



http://dita.xml.org/blog/25

From:
Eliot Kimber <>

To:
Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA

Cc:
dita <>

Date:
02/10/2011 10:06 AM

Subject:
Re: [dita] Conref range: Is constraint
on last member of range necessary or useful?

Determinism only applies when there is optionality.
Consider this DTD:

<!ELEMENT root (foo) >

<!ELEMENT foo (a, b, a, c, a, d) >

<!ELEMENT a (#PCDATA)* >

<!ATTLIST a id NMTOKEN #IMPLIED >

<!ELEMENT b (#PCDATA)* >

<!ATTLIST b id NMTOKEN #IMPLIED >

<!ELEMENT c (#PCDATA)* >

<!ATTLIST c id NMTOKEN #IMPLIED >

<!ELEMENT d (#PCDATA)* >

<!ATTLIST d id NMTOKEN #IMPLIED >

And this valid instance:

<!DOCTYPE root SYSTEM "sequence-test.dtd">

<root>

  <foo>

    <a id="a1"></a>

    <b id="b1"></b>

    <a id="a2"></a>

    <c id="c1"></c>

    <a id="a2"></a>

    <c id="c1"></c>

    <a id="a3"></a>

    <d id="d1"></d>

  </foo>

</root>

The element type <a> is allowed in three places, once followed by
<b>, once

followed by <c>, once by <d>. From a referencing topic I could
do this:

<foo>

  <a conkeyref="sequence-test.dtd/a2"

     conrefend="x#x/a3"

 />

 <b/><a/><c/><a/><d/>

</foo>

The referenced range is not DTD valid in the referencing context (and in

fact in this example there is no possible referenced range that would be
DTD

valid since the content model has no option members).

Since creating invalid reference results is not (and cannot be) disallowed,

it must be allowed. Requiring that the last member be <a> in this
case

doesn't make the result any *more* valid nor does it make it less valid.

But the reference is correct per the conref constraints.

Again, in this example, why should I be disallowed from referencing the

sequence <a/><b/>?

So while this may not be a likely case it is a possible case and it

demonstrates that imposing a requirement on the last member of the sequence

doesn't help ensure sensibility or DTD validity of the result.

In practice you would expect to only use conref range in the context of

parent elements with repeating OR groups but that itself is not a stated

requirement of the facility in DITA 1.2. But even in that case, requiring
a

specific sequence end doesn't make much sense since in the case of repeating

OR groups all valid members of the group will always be valid wherever
they

occur, so again, requiring a specific end element doesn't appear to help

(because validity is guaranteed in the repeating OR group case).

We can break the possibilities down as follows:

1. Parent content model is a repeating OR group: no possible sequence of

siblings that satisfy general conref constraints can be invalid. No need
to

constrain any node of sequence. Validity of referenced result is ensured
by

normal same-or-more-specialized type requirements on referenced elements

(including parent of referenced elements).

2. Parent content model is a sequence where first item in the referenced

sequence is required wherever it occurs (example shown above). In this
case,

validity of the referenced result cannot be guaranteed in any case.

Constraining the last node of the sequence cannot help, as shown above.

3. Parent content model is a sequence of elements where first member of
the

referenced sequence is optional in some cases. Determinism rules disallow

construction of na鴳e content models but any non-deterministic content
model

can be rewritten as a sequence of sequences that reflect all possible

combinations of elements. Therefore this case resolves to case 2. Again,

constraint of last member cannot help.

So I don't see how the last member constraint can ever help and I can think

of cases where it gets in the way. Thus it appears to be an unnecessary

requirement that requires content model design that wouldn't otherwise
be

required and that does not satisfy the intended goal, namely ensuring

sensibility of the conref result.

Cheers,

E.

On 2/10/11 7:25 AM, "Michael Priestley" <>
wrote:

> 

> Hi Eliot, 

> 

> Re: 

>> 2. It is possible to define sequence content models that allow
a given type

>> to occur in multiple places within the sequence but that allows
different

>> following siblings.

> 

> I don't believe that's true. See:

> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#determinism

> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#determinism>

> 

> The current design requires matching start/end elements explicitly
to leverage

> determinism. 

> 

> Michael Priestley, Senior Technical Staff Member (STSM)

> Lead IBM DITA Architect

> 

> http://dita.xml.org/blog/25
<http://dita.xml.org/blog/25>

> 

> 

> From: Eliot Kimber <>

> To: dita <>

> Date: 02/10/2011 08:03 AM

> Subject: [dita] Conref range: Is constraint on last member of range
necessary

> or useful? 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> I'm writing up my explanation of conref range for my book and in explaining

> the rule that the first and last elements of the range must be the
same type

> but intermediate members need not not be, it occurs to me that there's

> really no point in having the constraint on the last member of the
range.

> 

> Since I obviously didn't think about this too much at the time the
mechanism

> was proposed, I'm wondering if there was more thinking behind the
constraint

> than is evident from the language of the spec itself.

> 

> My questioning of the value of the constraint comes from this analysis:

> 

> 1. The requirement that the referencing and referenced elements have

> compatible parent elements ensures that the start element of the range
is

> valid in the referencing context.

> 

> 2. It is possible to define sequence content models that allow a given
type

> to occur in multiple places within the sequence but that allows different

> following siblings. This means that the referencing element could
refer to a

> range that is inconsistent with the sequence rules in the referencing

> context. Since this case is not explicitly disallowed, it must not
be a

> concern. This means that strict DTD validity of the conref result
cannot be

> ensured in the general case and there is no general requirement to
ensure

> it.

> 

> Likewise, since there are not constraints on the intermediate members
beyond

> common parentage, there must be no general concern about DTD validity
of the

> resolved result.

> 

> 3. Given (2) it can't possibly help to require the last member of
a sequence

> to be the same as the start since it cannot make the result more valid.

> 

> 4. Requiring that the start and end of the range be the same disallows
use

> of conref range for referencing sequences where the content model
does not

> allow the initial type to occur at the end of the range.

> 

> For example, say you have a specialized topic type that defines a
set of

> distinct specializations of <section> and puts them in a specific
order. It

> would be impossible to use conref range to re-use the sequence of
sections

> from another topic of the same type even though the result must be
DTD

> valid.

> 

> Thus, the requirement seems to be both unnecessary (it doesn't help
ensure

> correctness or sensibility of the conref result) and it disallows
legitimate

> cases.

> 

> Perhaps for 1.3 we should consider removing this constraint.

> 

> Cheers,

> 

> E.

> 

-- 

Eliot Kimber

Senior Solutions Architect

"Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together"

Main: 512.554.9368

www.reallysi.com

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