Right!
David Fischer wrote:
> Remember, what we are trying to decide is: Is Message Order required in the
> Core or optional. Are we going to require that *every* MSH support Message
> Order?
>
> No one is suggesting that Message Order goes away.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Fischer
> Drummond Group
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lund, Brad [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 10:59 AM
> To: 'Christopher Ferris'; ebXML Msg
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] MS v1.05
>
>
> All
> I hope you all understand and realize that I was using a simplified example,
> I certainly did not intend for it to be a model to design from :-) that
> said, I can think of several applications where in-order delivery would be
> useful and if I had it available to me I would certainly use it, that's just
> me.
>
> Regards,
> Brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Ferris [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:26 AM
> To: ebXML Msg
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] MS v1.05
>
>
> I'd never design a system that depended upon order and certainly
> not something like this (cancel last order without explicitly
> referencing WHICH order I meant) but maybe that's just me.
>
> IMO, you have to expect things will go awry. You always need to
> be prepared for the unexpected ("no one expected the Spanish
> Inquisition!" ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> Lund, Brad wrote:
>
>
>>In-order messaging is important because say you send a message to order
>>
> 100
>
>>widgets, then you send an order to cancel that last order and you then
>>
> send
>
>>a final message to order 10000 widgets, all in a very short amount of
>>
> time.
>
>>If that is the way it is suppose to be BUT it arrives like this Order
>>10000, cancel last order, order 100 widgets, it is very different and
>>
> maybe
>
>>not what you intended.
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: David Fischer [mailto:]
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 6:10 AM
>>To: SHIMAMURA Masayoshi; ebXML Msg
>>Cc: ; Michael DeNicola; IWASA Kazunori
>>Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] MS v1.05
>>
>>
>>What is Message Ordering needed for? I know of several developing
>>implementations and I don't believe they are implementing Message
>>
> Ordering?
>
>>Why
>>is it essential?
>>
>>As for backward compatibility, Chris' proposal to create a new element
>>called
>>AckRequested makes this all non-compatible. We could change
>>duplicateElimination=True|False back to
>>deliverySemantics=OnceAndOnlyOnce|BestEffort. They mean essentially the
>>same
>>thing. The change was for clarity but if this is a problem, let's change
>>
> it
>
>>back?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>David Fischer
>>Drummond Group.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: SHIMAMURA Masayoshi [mailto:]
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:45 AM
>>To: ebXML Msg
>>Cc: ; Michael DeNicola; IWASA Kazunori
>>Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] MS v1.05
>>
>>
>>Folks,
>>
>>Splitting the document is good idea for easy to read the specification.
>>However I don't understand why "Reliable Messaging" and "Message Order"
>>sections are included in Optional part. These are essential functions
>>for actual business on the Internet.
>>
>>I propose that we choice one from following ideas:
>>
>> 1. Move "Reliable Messaging Module" and "Message Order Module"
>> sections to the end of Part 1.
>>
>> 2. Add more one part "Advanced Functionality" and place "Reliable
>> Messaging Module" and "Message Order Module" sections in the
>> Advanced Functionality part as following:
>>
>> Part I. Core Functionality
>> [same contents as V1.05]
>> Part II. Advanced Functionality
>> 6. Reliable Messaging Module
>> 7. MessageOrder Module
>> Part III. Optional Futures
>> 8. Delivery Receipts
>> 9. Message Status Service
>> 10. Message Service Handler Ping Service
>> 11. Multi-Hop Module
>> Part IV. Appendices
>> [same contents as V1.05]
>>
>>
>>On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:57:31 -0500
>>David Fischer <> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This is v1.04 of the Messaging Document. This is a combined effort from
>>>
>>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>>Burdett (T2 lead), Chris Ferris, and David Fischer.
>>>
>>>We voted at the F2F to split the document into pieces or modules. Rather
>>>
>>>
>>than
>>
>>
>>>put those modules in a second document, we decided to split the document
>>>
>>>
>>into
>>
>>
>>>three parts.
>>>
>>>Part I
>>> Core Extension Elements and Modules
>>> MessageHeader element
>>> Manifest element
>>> Security Module
>>> Error Module
>>>Part II
>>> Optional Modules
>>> Delivery Receipts
>>> Reliable Messaging
>>> Message Status
>>> Message Service Ping/Pong
>>> Message Order
>>> Multi-Hop
>>>Part III
>>> Appendices
>>>
>>>Three new elements have been created:
>>> DeliveryReceiptRequested
>>> AckRequested
>>> MessageOrder
>>>
>>>The main difference for other elements is TraceHeaderList is under Via and
>>>QualityOfServiceInfo has new children. The other main difference is a new
>>>
>>>
>>actor
>>
>>
>>>for Acknowledgment so it can be targeted at the NextMSH or the ToPartyMSH.
>>>
>>>
>>There
>>
>>
>>>can now be 0, 1 or 2 instances of AckRequested and 0, 1 or 2 instances
>>>Acknowledgment. DeliveryReceipt is still in the spec but it is no longer
>>>
>>>
>>part
>>
>>
>>>of Reliable Messaging.
>>>
>>>OK, Let the comments begin!
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>David Fischer
>>>Drummond Group
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>--
>>SHIMAMURA Masayoshi <>
>>TEL:+81-45-476-4590(ext.7128-4241) FAX:+81-45-476-4726(ext.7128-6783)
>>Planning Dep., Strategic Planning Div., Software Group, FUJITSU LIMITED
>>
>>
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