Title: RE: [ebxml-msg] FW: [ebxml-cppa] IBM patent disclosure
Jacques, I think Ian has to fix this. He has to approve or add your
name to the eList if its not already there.
David.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacques Durand
[mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:20
PM
To: 'David Fischer'; Jacques Durand; 'Martin W Sachs'
Cc:
ebXML Msg
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] FW: [ebxml-cppa] IBM patent
disclosure
David:
The
editorial adjustment you suggest on MS seems sufficient to
me.
(note:
My previous comment did not go to the entire msg list, as for some reason
I was
not allowed to write on it - use it or loose it... not sure it is fixed
yet)
With
all respect due to remarquable Marty's contribution (and I happen to
concur
with
him on several MS past issues - in particular, precisely the need
to
address more clearly the statefulness/configuration [of
conversations] in an MSH),
I
think caution is in order as no-one can really presume of what will be the
future
implications of IBM's claim.
Regards,
jacques
-----Original Message-----
From: David Fischer
[mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:31
AM
To: Jacques Durand; 'Martin W Sachs'
Cc: ebXML
Msg
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] FW: [ebxml-cppa] IBM patent
disclosure
I don't think we need to withdraw v2 from the approval process.
This may be as simple as putting something in the errata, for section 1.2.3,
which says something like:
Throughout this specification,
reference is made to the work
of the CPPA working group.
This is not meant as an endorsement
or as a requirement. Any
equivalent means of storing
configuration information is
acceptable.
Regards,
David.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacques Durand
[mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002
3:24 PM
To: 'Martin W Sachs'; David Fischer
Cc: ebXML
Msg
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] FW: [ebxml-cppa] IBM patent
disclosure
It is true that the MS specification is explicit about the
fact that
a CPA document is not needed. The CPAId,
if present, "MAY reference an
instance of a CPA". It
is only required to identify a set of conversation parameters.
Two MSHs involved in the same conversation, are only
required to identify the
same set of parameters
based on the CPAId.
However, remain many wordings in the spec that "assume" the
use
of a CPA doc, describing normative
material
by making explicit references to CPA
elements. An example:
"The DuplicateElimination
element MUST NOT be present if the CPA has
duplicateElimination set to never".
So there seems to be some - maybe just editorial? -
inconsistency here.
The most radical way to really make MS non-depending on CPA,
is to remove
all direct normative references to
"CPA" and CPA elements, such as above.
But there has
to be some other way to refer to the agreement parameters that
govern a conversation...
One
way is to introduce a "conversation mode agreement" (say, CMA) entity,
containing the small subset of MS-relevant CPA
parameters.
This "CMA" is a change, but not as major
as it looks. Does not even need be described
as an
XML document. Only as a list of abstract conversation parameters with
possible values.
The description of how this CMA
maps to a CPA elements, is non-normative.
Incidentally, that would make it easier for implementors to
capture
the parameters needed to "configure" a
conversation.
Just an idea, knowing that its
feasibility is low, late at this stage...
Regards,
Jacques
-----Original Message-----
From:
Martin W Sachs [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:33 AM
To: David Fischer
Cc: ebXML Msg
Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] FW: [ebxml-cppa] IBM patent
disclosure
We don't require a CPA in messaging. We expended a
great deal of time and
effort to make sure that the
MSG spec is correct while not requiring a CPA.
Whether you want to advise users to configure their systems
manually
instead of using a CPA is an entirely
different question.
It won't serve anyone well to pull V2 back from the OASIS
approval process
at this point if that's what you
have in mind.
Regards,
Marty
*************************************************************************************
Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson
Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;
IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address: Martin W
Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address: mwsachs @
us.ibm.com
*************************************************************************************
David
Fischer
<david@drummondgr
To: ebXML Msg
<>
oup.com>
cc:
Subject: [ebxml-msg] FW: [ebxml-cppa] IBM patent
disclosure
04/24/2002
09:49
AM
We need to seriously consider whether we require CPPA in
Messaging. If IBM
requires a license to use
CPPA, that could easily transfer to Messaging
based
upon this requirement.
Regards,
David Fischer
Drummond Group.
-----Original Message-----
From:
David Fischer [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 8:45 AM
To:
Cc: Rik
Drummond
Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] IBM patent
disclosure
I logged on this morning to vote yes on the
specification. Now I am going
to
abstain.
I gather that the very existence of this technology is what
IBM claims and
there
is
nothing we can change in the specification to obviate IBMs claim --
they
claim the whole document even though they had a
minor role in developing
it.
IBM is going to require anyone who uses CPPA to obtain a
license? This
makes
IBM the owner of CPPA! Marty has assured us that the cost will
be zero,
yet IBM
is not
willing to make this assurance in writing. Rest assured then,
the
cost
will not always be
zero.
Regards,
David Fischer
Drummond Group.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Martin W Sachs [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 6:09 PM
To:
Subject:
[ebxml-cppa] IBM patent disclosure
Regarding the question in the minutes of whether someone
must apply for a
license for the IBM patents, I have
checked on the answer. The answer is
yes. If a company believes that their CPPA implementation may
be covered
by the IBM patents, the procedure is to
apply to IBM for a license. There
will be no
fee for the license.
Regards,
Marty
********************************************************************************
*****
Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson
Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;
IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address: Martin W
Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address: mwsachs @
us.ibm.com
********************************************************************************
*****
----- Forwarded by Martin W
Sachs/Watson/IBM on 04/19/2002 07:03 PM -----
Peter Ogden
<pogden@cycloneco
To: "ebXML-CPPA
(E-mail)"
<>
mmerce.com>
cc:
Subject: [ebxml-cppa] CPPA
conference call
minutes - 2002/04/19
04/19/2002 06:30
PM
Here are my notes from today's conference call. Please
advise if any
corrections are needed.
Peter
**** Attachment CPPACallMinutes20020419.doc has been removed
from this note
on 19 April 2002 by Martin W Sachs
****
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