RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: [ebcore] AMQP and ebXML messaging?

David and Dale,

 

My understanding is that AMQP was very much positioned as 
an internal (intra-enterprise) messaging bus protocol competing with 
existing proprietary protocols.  I do not think it was intended as an 
inter-enterprise protocol.  

 

So I see ebMS as being complementary to AMQP for 
inter-enterprise message exchange just as ebMS is complimentary to JMS and 
other proprietary messaging protocols.  

 

Some 
of my colleagues in Cisco have been quite active in the development of the 
AMQP.  I can ask them to engage in the discussion if there's 
interest.

 

Best 
Regards,

 

John

From: David RR Webber (XML) 
[mailto:] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:24 
AM
To: Moberg Dale
Cc: ; 

Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: [ebcore] 
AMQP and ebXML messaging?

Dale,

 

Good synopsis.  

 

That would certainly jive with SWIFT message needs - where their existing 
XML is overspecified - whereas the original SWIFT messages are highly compact 
but underspecified!  And of course banks love to have hardware messaging 
layers that only they have.  And when they talk about open standard - that 
means between banks!

 

I did find this - http://jira.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp0-9.xml?version=1

 

which makes an ebXML CPA look trivial!  Trawling through that though I 
see I could if pressed write some XSLT to output that control file 
format from a CPA... since most of the semantic and logic content would 
appear to be consistent with typical control parameters, or easily defaulted 
to obvious values.

 

I'm not sure about sweet spot for ebMS though - as certainly the UK NHS are 
sending very high message volumes per minute of common XML messages... so it 
probably is an example of the banks intentionally wanting to be different 
(again) and the cost is not an issue for them.

 

Thanks, DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [ebxml-msg] RE: 
  [ebcore] AMQP and ebXML messaging?
From: "Moberg Dale" 
  <>
Date: Tue, August 12, 2008 2:07 pm
To: "David 
  RR Webber (XML)" 
  <>,
<>
Cc: 
  <>

  

  

  
 

  

  
I have encountered 
  AMQP proponents and evangelists (!) several times over the last few years, and 
  have heard a presentation on it from an original 
  contributer.

  
 

  
Actually it seemed to 
  me that AMQP was more concerned with supplementing ordinary internet protocols 
  with message queues, as the acronym suggests.

  
For example, fixed 
  length message headers were typically used partly out of concern with overflow 
  attacks. 

  
Binary 
  representations were sometimes used instead of XML to avoid XML parser 
  attacks. Etc.

  
 

  
So I would guess you 
  could layer a SOAP infoset on top of AMQP if you wanted to. I really think 
  that AMQP is maybe an alternative to FTP, SMTP and HTTP for business data 
  exchange and is not very high up on the collaboration protocol 
  layering.

  
 

  
If it is payload 
  neutral, we can layer ebMS 3.0 payloads over it. I see no real reason to think 
  AMQP is not neutral in this respect. If we wanted to we could work out the 
  Transport details for AMQP and layer over it. Do you see any interest in that? 
  My impression is that they were going for high performance on high volumes of 
  short messages, which is not the normal sweet spot for the ebXML OASIS 
  layers.

  
 

  
Dale 
  Moberg

  
 

  
 

  

  
In researching 
  TWIST I tripped over the related work on AMQP

  

  
 

  

  
http://jira.amqp.org/confluence/display/AMQP/About+AMQP

  

  
 

  

  
The 
  banking industry of course has a long history of inventing messaging that only 
  they use.

  

  
 

  

  
However 
  they claim interoperability with SOAP in this case - but when you look at 
  their business objectives - it looks like they are re-inventing the ebMS 
  wheel.  

  

  
 

  

  
So the 
  question I have is - has anyone else looked at this AMQP stuff - and is it 
  compatible with ebMS - particularly V3.0?   
  

  

  
 

  

  
Obviously if implementers can send ebMS exchanges 
  across AMQP infrastructure seamlessly then this is less 
  problematic.

  

  
 

  

  
Thanks, 
  DW

  

  
 

  

  
 

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