Hi John,
I am glad to hear that you share the concerns of the important use
case of
a
document with tracked changes being edited by an implementation
not supporting CT seems to completely break the referencing
model.
Especially as my current pre-release of MS Office 2013 with
ODF 1.2 support simply throws away all my change-tracking
information. I am glad to hear that Microsoft takes this use case
serious and looking forward to work with the full MS Office 2013
version supporting the important change-tracking use case.
Enjoy your week-end,
Svante
On 19.10.2012 13:12, John Haug wrote:
I
have similar concerns, because I haven’t seen yet how they
are avoided. The case of a document with tracked changes
being edited by an implementation not supporting CT seems to
completely break the referencing model. See my previous
mails from October 1, “Counting issues, etc”.
John
From:
[ mailto: ]
On Behalf Of Robin LaFontaine
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:05 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [office-collab] Re: Counting in
Access Paths
I agree with
your concerns, Dennis, and am surprised implementors do not
seem to worry about this issue. OT has, we are told, been
proved to work in a forwards direction when by definition
all the 'edits' will be tracked and executed. Working
backwards (from existing to previous version, i.e. tracked
change) when not all the changes will be tracked, and not
all accepted, is a different problem, IMHO. However, it is
simple enough (though it will need a good bit of effort) to
demonstrate whether or not this is a real concern - we need
a specification of how it works and some implementations!
Robin
On 17/10/2012 21:38, Dennis E. Hamilton
wrote:
I'm having a terminology problem here.
As far as I'm concerned, s= /2/10 and e= /3/18 are absolute addresses. Hierarchical, but absolute, not unlike in absolute URLs. It's more brittle than in a URL because it is based on counted position, not on labeled hierarchy nodes. That means insertion and deletion of siblings at every level requires these references to be repaired. That's scary.
On the other hand, to use an existing example, xml:id= ct270478544 establishes a *fixed* identifier, but it does not rely on fixed locations. So wherever a text:change-id= ct270478544 happens to refer to it, the connection is maintained no matter what kind of movement happens on the paths between the two.
It is true that in the specific case of the ODF 1.2 use of this device, the <text:changed-region> element is referenced from the content where it is applicable, not the reverse. That seems like a good choice to me, considering that it is the reference from the content that makes examination of the <text:changed-region> of any concern. This also allows the <text:changed-region> material to be output in front of the content, so it can all be indexed before the in-text references occur in the datastream.
Does not the MCT use of these rigid absolute paths require that the document be serialized before the tracking information can be serialized? And for a consumer presenting the content, is it necessary to find the relevant change-tracking information by some synchronization method? My concern is that it is impossible to detect when synchronization has been broken. Everything has to be absolutely perfect and there is no way to touch a change-tracked document without having to adjust all of the tracking locations. That's a considerable burden.
I am only addressing the cross-identification approach here. It appears that ODF CT does this in a more robust way; I don't see why MCT can't be made at least as resilient.
I think there does need to be a stretchy way to connect between tracked details and the point of change. An xml:id ID value and a corresponding IDREF attribute value do this perfectly for XML-modeled persistent document formats. And this kind of support already has to exist in ODF-based processors simply because of the many ways that cross-referencing is handled by identifiers of some type, including IRIs that refer into package parts by fragment identifiers.
- Dennis
..snip
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