Hi Rob,
wrote:
> Given a ZIP entry of: A/B
>
> How do we know whether:
>
> B is an empty directory in A
>
> versus
>
> B is a zero byte file in A?
>
> I thought A/B was a file and A/B/ was a directory.
>
> That said, there is a lot of code, including libraries, out there that
> doesn't follow the above rule and relies on figuring out implicitly what
> directories need to be made, according to the paths encoded in non-zero
> byte files. So I still think allowing zero-byte files or empty
> directories is a portability concern.
Is it? I mean, we have ODF since 2005, and did we ever have an issue
with that?
It's not that this may not be discussed, but do we really know what
impact a change in this area has? Are we sure we don't break existing
applications? I personally would recommend to not make such changes for
ODF 1.2 as late unless we are crystal clear about the impact and the
benefits.
Michael
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> "Dennis E. Hamilton" <> wrote on 09/27/2010
> 05:11:41 PM:
>
>> RE: [office] RE: Directories in Zip packages
>>
>> -1
>>
>> Unless there is a proposal for how to accomplish the signing of
>> "directories" via XML Digital Signature (and also directory entries for
>> package files, which we don't sign either).
>>
>> Please include a specific rule for knowing what is a directory entry in
> the
>> Zip, because there is no help in APPNOTE 6.2.0 that I can find.
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hanssens Bart [mailto:]
>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 10:42
>> To: ; 'Svante Schubert'
>> Cc: ODF TC List
>> Subject: RE: [office] RE: Directories in Zip packages
>>
>> Arrgh :-) Folks, this is going back and forth, while I really would like
> to
>> see some work on XAdES :-)
>>
>> My suggestion:
>>
>> - discourage (but not forbid) the use of empty directories and empty
> files
>> in ODF packages
>> - sign everything in the zip (including empty directories and empty
> files)
>> - change the 1.2 draft about document signatures and mention "sign every
>> entry" instead of
>> "sign every file"
>>
>> This means there's no impact on unsigned ODF docs (because every
>> implementation can still
>> use empty things, although it is discouraged)
>>
>> There is impact on signed implementations signing/verifying signed docs,
> but
>> those products
>> probably have to be updated anyway (to support correct prefixes, version
>> attributes etc)
>>
>>
>> Bart
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton []
>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:30 PM
>> To: 'Svante Schubert'
>> Cc: ODF TC List
>> Subject: RE: [office] RE: Directories in Zip packages
>>
>> Svante, a sub-document doesn't have to be an "actual" directory in any
>> literal sense. This was clear in ODF 1.0/1.1 and I know of nothing that
>> requires us to change that.
>>
>> The sub-document <manifest:file-entry> simply has to specify a "path"
> prefix
>> that some of the package files share and that are treated as a
> collection
>> with respect to the manifest:media-type. Otherwise we would be in a
> world
>> of hurt with manifest:full-path="/".
>>
>> We don't have nor require that "META-INF/" be declared as a sub-document
> or
>> have a directory entry in the package, nor do we do so for "Thumbnail/"
> and
>> so on.
>>
>> When there is an ODF Package-significant use for declaring empty
>> directories, we should treat it as an extension case. In the meantime,
> I
>> think we should give consumers a break here, especially around document
>> security issues. A speculative future scenario is no help to a consumer
> who
>> stumbles on one of these now because of some inscrutable producer
> behavior.
>> - Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Svante Schubert [mailto:]
>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 09:20
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [office] RE: Directories in Zip packages
>>
>> On 27.09.2010 16:57, Bob Jolliffe wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> So I would say that an odf producer should only produce entries
> in
>> the
>> zipfile for non-zero-length streams (this would by default also
>> excludes directories). And that each of these shall be
> referenced
>> in
>> a full document signature.
>>
>> May I remind the TC, that from the perspective of the package (ODF 1.2
> part
>> 3 - which can be seen as the base layer of ODF 1.2) an entity called a
>> document is defined by a directory related with a media type (in the
>> manifest.xml).
>>
>> In general I believe when a generic functionality does not hurt, it
> should
>> not be forbidden nor dropped as other yet unknown user scenarios might
> rely
>> on it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Svante
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> <http://www.oracle.com/>
>> Svante Schubert | ODF Standardization
>> Phone: +49 40 23646 965
>> Oracle Office GBU
>>
>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Nagelsweg 55 | 20097 Hamburg
>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
>>
>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
>> Rijnzathe 6, 3454PV De Meern, Niederlande
>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697
>> Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz, Marcel van de Molen, Alexander van der Ven
>>
>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment>
>>
>> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help
> protect
>> the environment
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>
--
Michael Brauer | Oracle Office Development
Phone: +49 40 23646 500
Oracle Office GBU
ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Nagelsweg 55 | 20097 Hamburg
ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG
Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
Rijnzathe 6, 3454PV De Meern, Niederlande
Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697
Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz, Marcel van de Molen, Alexander van der Ven
