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Draft Minutes for 2010-10-12 and 2010-10-19
Best Regards,
Eric.
Eric Wells
Consulting Engineer
Hitachi Computer Products (America)
Inc.
Cell: +1 415 672 2594
Title: SCA-Assembly - 2010-10-19
Hide Chat
- DRAFT -
Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference
19 OCT 2010
Attendees
Bryan AupperleIBM
David BoozIBM
Martin ChapmanOracle Corporation
Graham ChartersIBM
Mike EdwardsIBM
Jeff EstefanJet Propulsion Laboratory
Simon HoldsworthIBM
Eric JohnsonTIBCO Software Inc.
Diane JordanIBM
Anish KarmarkarOracle Corporation
Rich LevinsonOracle Corporation
Jonathan MaronOracle Corporation
Jeff MischkinskyOracle Corporation
Peter NiblettIBM
Sanjay PatilSAP AG
Plamen PavlovSAP AG
Gilbert PilzOracle Corporation
Danny van der RijnTIBCO Software Inc.
Scott VorthmannTIBCO Software Inc.
Eric WellsHitachi, Ltd.
Chairs
Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards
Scribe
Eric Wells
Agenda:1. Intro
Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing
2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting
3. Action Items
id=2010-09-22-3 status=pending owner="Anish" Produce concrete proposal for ASSEMBLY-241 based on directional resolution in
F2F minutes
id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2010-09-22-9 status=pending Raise issue WRT cardinality of channels
id=2010-09-22-10 status=pending Add RFC2119 to Event portion of 1.2
id=2010-09-22-11 status=pending Define what a binding needs to support for event processing
4. TC Administrivia
a) Public Review of Test Suite Adaptation and Implementation Type Documentation Requirements for SCA Assembly Model v1.1
- started on 31 August
- ends 30 October 2010
5. New Issues (1.2)
ASSEMBLY-246: Add eventType declarations to the schema of definitions.xml
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246
ASSEMBLY-248: RFC2119 wording and conformance statement need to be added for event processing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-248
7. 1.2 Specification Open Issues
ASSEMBLY-227: Promotion of consumers and producers undermines composability
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-227
Proposal
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201004/msg00044.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37273/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37272/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.doc
Discussion from F2F:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/39643/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202010-09-22.html
ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235
No Proposal
ASSEMBLY-238: (1.2): eventType element, EventType type declared twice in schema, eventType.xsd used but not defined
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-238
Proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-239: (1.2): Business data filter element needs better name, definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-239
Proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-233: Define how Policy works for SCA Eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-233
No Proposal
ASSEMBLY-241: binding decl for producer/consumer are problematic
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-241
No proposal
ASSEMBLY-243: Is the default channel configurable?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-243
No proposal
ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244
Outline proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245
Proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247
No proposal
8. AOB
Contents
Topics
[1]
Opening
[2]
Action Items
[3]
Administrivia
[4]
New Issues
[5]
Open Issues
[6]
AOB
Table of Resolutions
Table of Action Items
Action Items
Resolutions
2010-10-19-1: ASSEMBLY-248 opened w/o
Minutes
Opening
Roll call 14/19 = 73% Quorate
Agenda - accepted as posted
Minutes from 2010-10-12
Not posted/available
EricW:
My bad sorry - couldn't get them formatted
...will make available prior to next meeting
Action Items
id=2010-09-22-3 status=pending owner="Anish" Produce concrete proposal for ASSEMBLY-241 based on directional resolution in
F2F minutes
id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2010-09-22-9 status=pending Raise issue WRT cardinality of channels
id=2010-09-22-10 status=done Add RFC2119 to Event portion of 1.2
id=2010-09-22-11 status=done Define what a binding needs to support for event processing
Administrivia
<Mike Edwards>
Ashok LOA:
<Mike Edwards>
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201010/msg00032.html
<Mike Edwards>
LOA granted
Ashok Malhotra LOA request approved w/o (2010-11-01 to 2010-11-14)
PR finishes 2010-10-30 - No comments received so far
BryanA:
Has CD06 Schema been published?
MartinC:
No - was in a rush to get published before TC process changes went into effect
BryanA:
Also need to tidy up JIRA items
JeffE:
What about other deliverables for 1.1?
MikeE:
All deliverables for 1.1 have been previously approved as CD's
...now waiting for other specs to be availble (Policy, Java, etc)
JeffE:
Changes to spec to incorporate Implementation Type and Test Adaption docs?
MikeE:
Yes - but it's up to TC to decide how handle (substansive) changes
AnishK:
Java spec waiting on POJO tests - expect completion by end of November (but a little optimistic)
Note for roll - EricJ DannyV DianeJ
New Issues
ASSEMBLY-246: Add eventType declarations to the schema of definitions.xml
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246
MikeE:
Introduces issue
...Where do event type declarations get included?
...currently nowhere appropriate - suggestion is to extend defintitions.xml to allow
AnishK:
Event types should be part of contribution
<gilbert.pilz>
http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-ws-event-descriptions-20100330/
MikeE:
We can use this format (WS-RA) but where (in SCA) does this get done?
AnishK:
Problem is ASSEMBLY-246 worded assuming a particular solution
...think there's a better way to do this
<anish>
How about changing the title to: How are evenType QName definitions resolved?
EricJ:
Agree with Anish - treat more like WSDL - could be issues (TBD) wrt compatability
<anish>
it would be nice if WSRA would just allow GETing the definitions using HTTP
GilP: FYI - WS-RA can inline event types
MikeE:
Probably wouldn't help - need a dereferenceable defintion for (eg) checking compatability
...OK more to this issue than described with current ASSEMBLY-246
...Will update description of issue and consider again next week
<Mike Edwards>
Mike: I take an action to update the issue and bring it back
ASSEMBLY-248: RFC2119 wording and conformance statement need to be added for event processing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-248
MartinC:
Reviews issue - need to add RFC2119 to imported event text
Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-248 m=MartinC s=DannyV
No discussion, no objection
Resolution: ASSEMBLY-248 opened w/o
Note GilP for roll
Open Issues
ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235
No Proposal
EricJ:
Had sent proposal to E-mail list but haven't seen any responses
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/201010/msg00023.html
Summary - Currently map to WSDL 1.1 then check
Proposal - Map to a COMMON IDL then check compatability
<anish>
a non-capitized and non-marked 'must'
MikeE:
For LOCAL i/f's spec says "the method of checking compatibility is defined by the specifications which define those interface
types..."
DannyV:
Could have the situation where one part thinks i/f is compatable but another doesn't
MikeE:
Problemis how to decide what IDL is common?
EricJ:
If i/f's use same IDL then no problem - otherwise map to say WSDL 1.1
MikeE:
But how does mapping to WSDL get done?
...if not in the spec then different vendors can map in different ways
MartinC:
Current spec allows other than WSDL 1.1 for IDL and if i/f's use the SAME IDL then that's OK
...however if they are different then have to use WSDL 1.1 to ensure theres a common IDL with standard mapping
Discussion on how to handle when IDL can't be mapped to WSDL 1.1 - whether i/f's should be declared incompatible
Time expired
AOB
<MartinC>
roll is fixed: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=28478
<MartinC>
thanks Eric W
Straggler role - heard
Eric Johnson, Danny van der Rijn, Diane Jordan, Gilbert Pilz
Meeting adjourned 9:02AM PDT
[End of Minutes]
Formatted on 2010-10-26 at 01:35:46 GMT-7
Minutes formatted by Schreiber, a collection of XSLT
stylesheets by Bob Freund modeled after David Booth's scribe
Schreiber diagnostics output[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]
final validation: Date not specified, the date '2010-10-19' was assumed
final validation: Title not specified, default title 'Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference...' was assumed
final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed
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command-scribe: Line 3: Since the line number is less than or equal to 20 we will interpret this as a scribename command,
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edit-delete: Line 96 was deleted
system: Transformer: SAXON 9.2.1.2
[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]
Title: SCA-Assembly - 2010-10-12
Hide Chat
- DRAFT -
Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference
12 OCT 2010
Attendees
Eric WellsHitachi, Ltd.
Bryan AupperleIBM
David BoozIBM
Graham ChartersIBM
Diane JordanIBM
Peter NiblettIBM
Jeff EstefanJet Propulsion Laboratory
Martin ChapmanOracle Corporation
Anish KarmarkarOracle Corporation
Rich LevinsonOracle Corporation
Ashok MalhotraOracle Corporation
Jonathan MaronOracle Corporation
Plamen PavlovSAP AG
Eric JohnsonTIBCO Software Inc.
Danny van der RijnTIBCO Software Inc.
Scott VorthmannTIBCO Software Inc.
Chairs
Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards
Scribe
Eric Wells
Agenda:1. Intro
Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing
2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/39643/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202010-09-22.html
3. Action Items
id=2010-09-22-3 status=pending owner="Anish" Produce concrete proposal for ASSEMBLY-241 based on directional resolution in
F2F minutes
id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2010-09-22-9 status=pending Raise issue WRT cardinality of channels id=2010-09-22-10 status=pending Add RFC2119 to Event
portion of 1.2
id=2010-09-22-11 status=pending Define what a binding needs to support for event processing
id=2010-10-05-1 status=pending Obtain clarification from TC Admin
id=2010-10-05-2 status=done Edwards to correct the issue text in Jira s/241/242 in Assembly-244
4. TC Administrivia
a) Public Review of Test Suite Adaptation and Implementation Type Documentation Requirements for SCA Assembly Model v1.1
- started on 31 August
- ends 30 October 2010
5. New Issues (1.2)
ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244
ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245
ASSEMBLY-246: Add eventType declarations to the schema of definitions.xml
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246
ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247
7. 1.2 Specification Open Issues
ASSEMBLY-227: Promotion of consumers and producers undermines composability
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-227
Proposal
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201004/msg00044.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37273/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37272/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.doc
Discussion from F2F:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/39643/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202010-09-22.html
ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235
No Proposal
ASSEMBLY-238: (1.2): eventType element, EventType type declared twice in schema, eventType.xsd used but not defined
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-238
Proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-239: (1.2): Business data filter element needs better name, definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-239
Proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-233: Define how Policy works for SCA Eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-233
No Proposal
ASSEMBLY-241: binding decl for producer/consumer are problematic
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-241
No proposal
ASSEMBLY-243: Is the default channel configurable?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-243
No proposal
8. AOB
Contents
Topics
[1]
Opening
[2]
Action Items
[3]
Administrivia
[4]
New Issues
[5]
1.2 Specification Open Issues
Table of Resolutions
Table of Action Items
Action Items
Pending:
id=2010-09-22-9 status=pending owner="MikeE" Raise issue WRT cardinality of channels id=2010-09-22-10 status=pending
Resolutions
2010-10-12-1: Minutes of 2010-10-05 approved w/o
2010-10-12-2: ASSEMBLY-244 Opened by majority vote
2010-10-12-3: ASSEMBLY-245 opened w/o
2010-10-12-4: ASSEMBLY-247 opened w/o
Minutes
<Bryan Aupperle>
Martin, Mike may be late.
Opening
Roll call 14/20 = 70%
Quorate with > 2/3
Agenda
MartinC:
Not heared from Mary WRT need for another PR
Agenda accepted as posted
<Bryan Aupperle>
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/39683/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202010-10-05.html
<MartinC>
5th october minutes: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/201010/msg00019.html
No comments, objections
Resolution: Minutes of 2010-10-05 approved w/o
Action Items
id=2010-09-22-3 status=pending owner="Anish" Produce concrete proposal for ASSEMBLY-241 based on directional resolution in
F2F minutes
id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
Action: id=2010-09-22-9 status=pending owner=MikeE Raise issue WRT cardinality of channels id=2010-09-22-10 status=pending
id=2010-09-22-10 status=pending Add RFC2119 to Event portion of 1.2
id=2010-09-22-11 status=pending Define what a binding needs to support for event processing
id=2010-10-05-1 status=pending Obtain clarification from TC Admin
id=2010-10-05-2 status=done Edwards to correct the issue text in Jira s/241/242 in Assembly-244
LOA request for Bob Freund for 2010-10-19
No objections
resolution LOA request approved for Bob Freund 2010-10-19
Administrivia
a) Public Review of Test Suite Adaptation and Implementation Type Documentation Requirements for SCA Assembly Model v1.1
- started on 31 August
- ends 30 October 2010
New Issues
ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244
EricJ:
Raised from discussion at F2F
PeterN:
Really a few underlying issues discussed in E-mail
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/201010/msg00024.html
Anish:
Decided at F2F that channel can only have one binding - if more needed then use extensibility
PeterN:
Haven't seena a real use case for multiple bindings
<anish>
peter, i'm not necessarily advocating for multiple bindings. I was merely trying to reflect what the discussion at the f2f
was -- as I remember it.
DannyV:
Aim was to allow a common extension point so multiple vendors could "agree" for intetop
PeterN:
Then why not include in spec?
Opinion was the we didn't want to get into this now, but allow possibility in future
Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-244 m=EricJ s=DannyV
AshokM:
Objection - we dicided we only should have one so shouldn't allow more
Vote for - 8 against 4 motion passes
Resolution: ASSEMBLY-244 Opened by majority vote
ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245
AnishK:
Summarizes issue - added to allow adding WS-RA Event Desciption
DannyV:
Don't want to compel us to use WS-RA Event types (may be delayed, etc)
AnishK:
Doesn't commit us
MartinC:
Issue is not opened and could be resolved with CNA - just
Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-245 m=AnishK s=EricJ
No comment, objections
Resolution: ASSEMBLY-245 opened w/o
ASSEMBLY-246: Add eventType declarations to the schema of definitions.xml
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246
AnishK:
Think this was Mike's not sure what he was thinking
MartinC:
Suggest passing on this and let Mike clarify next week
ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247
EricJ:
Reviews issue
...What are the requirements on a binding specifically for event processing
...(i.e. in addition to already defined stuff)
...really to help define (for vendors and SCA Bindings TC)
AnishK:
Why is evnt processin "special" wrt to bindings?
PeterN:
Do we "define" rules for bindings in general?
MartinC:
Yes. E.G. Matching rules - all high level
PeterN:
So we should defeine what we mean by a binding so everyone is on the same page
EricJ:
Proposal doesn't have to be solution - but issue gives a forum to discuss
Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-247 m=EricJ s=DannyV
No further discussion, no objection
Resolution: ASSEMBLY-247 opened w/o
DianeJ: Add to the role please
MartinC:
ACK
1.2 Specification Open Issues
(Looking for issues we can discuss)
ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235
EricJ:
Sent E-mail yesterday:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/201010/msg00023.html
EricJ; We should not specifically require WSDL 1.1 as there can be issues
...Instead we should just say "a common IDL" - so could use WSDL 1.1 but others is appropriate
...maybe interfaces are in the same language, but could both be mapped to another IDL
MartinC:
Currently require EVERY interface to map to common IDL (WSDL 1.1)
...if this is relaxed then only checking "pair-wise" so other components may not work together
AnishK:
Thought remotable interfaces had to be mapped to WSDL 1.1
EricJ:
ONLY for checking compatability
...no requirement to provide mapping for USE with interface
<MartinC>
lol
<Dave Booz>
i have the leader code should I restart the call?
<MartinC>
well we are out of time
<Eric Johnson>
Time's up - useful discussion to continue next week.
<MartinC>
any stragglers to "squeak"
<anish>
eric, that was useful for me
<MartinC>
stragglers going once......
<MartinC>
twice......
EricW:
How can stragglers "squeak" when ther's no 'phone?
<MartinC>
they squeak here - a slight bending of the rules
<Dave Booz>
FWIW, you're both right. The spec doesnt mandate a mapping to WSDL but the practical reality of a SOA environment is that
WSDL (and other IDLs) will be prevalent and therefore the need to get compatibility will drag the need to map to WSDL
EricW:
I only heard Diane earlier
<MartinC>
unless REST takes over, and there is no spoon (IDL)
<MartinC>
i have diane
<MartinC>
ok no more for the roll
<MartinC>
roll is fixed. thanks eric W
<anish>
what i recall is that for 1.1 we decided that mapping to wsdl 1.1 was required (for remotable)
<anish>
but as eric points out, the spec doesn't say that
roll is fixed: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=28477
Meeting forcibly adjourned 9:01AM PDT
[End of Minutes]
Formatted on 2010-10-26 at 02:08:23 GMT-7
Minutes formatted by Schreiber, a collection of XSLT
stylesheets by Bob Freund modeled after David Booth's scribe
Schreiber diagnostics output[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]
final validation: Date not specified, the date '2010-10-12' was assumed
final validation: Title not specified, default title 'Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference...' was assumed
final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed
statistics: Schreiber found 98 input lines
edits: Schreiber found the following text-edit commands:
edits: Line 33: s/they use/then use/
command-scribe: Line 2: Since the line number is less than or equal to 20 we will interpret this as a scribename command,
note that the scribe command is deprecated
command-scribe: Line 2: Scribe 'Eric Wells' is recognized by use of the nick 'EricW'
command-scribe: Line 2: EricW's nick 'EricW' has been selected
citation-detection-scribed: Line 27: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY-244'
edit-substitute: command on line 33 succeeded, changed line 32 from 'they use' to 'then use'
edit-delete: Line 33 was deleted
citation-detection-scribed: Line 45: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY-245'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 55: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY-246'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 59: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY-247'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 80: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'DianeJ'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 85: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY-235'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 125: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Meeting forcibly adjourned 9'
system: Transformer: SAXON 9.2.1.2
[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]
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