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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
That would be the list, thanks David.
Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to encompass
the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other WS* specs, thereby
moving towards convergence. A curious point is that we don't see that
kind of outreach yet from the other side....
john
David Webber (XML) wrote:
> Joe,
>
> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
>
> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated
> architecture that documents the new capabilities that all this
> enables.
>
> Thanks, DW
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
> <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" <[email protected]>; "Duane
> Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <[email protected]>;
> <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>;
> <psnack@aiag.org>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>;
> <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" <[email protected]>;
> <mjyader@comcast.net>; <[email protected]>;
> <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "James Bryce Clark"
> <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>
>
> <Quote>
> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is closing
> that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> </Quote>
>
> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> Joseph Chiusano
> Booz Allen Hamilton
> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
>>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; [email protected];
>>tony.scott@gm.com; [email protected]; [email protected];
>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; [email protected];
>>golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; [email protected];
>>tdean@criticaltech.net; [email protected]; James Bryce Clark
>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>
>>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
>>
>>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like
>>to enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities
>>or just for ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale
>>asked me about addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good
>>conversation with Jamie the other night, and got some
>>direction from both him and from Duane. I would very much
>>like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump how the two
>>groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call next
>>Wed if allowed.
>>
>>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward with
>>the work from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a
>>facilitator towards interoperability among the upcoming
>>business process frameworks (WS*, ebXML and SemWeb are three
>>that are working to gain dominance). The request-response
>>model is a very simplistic view that isn't currently mapping
>>well onto the true complexity that large industries have
>>developed in their shared business processes. For example, no
>>one will argue today that inventory visibility for the
>>automotive industry is a request-response model between two
>>partners. Healthcare is another area that is very complex,
>>and requires multiple interactions between large numbers of
>>process participants to complete the information exchange,
>>with forks and decisions during the execution.
>>
>>The other reality is that process participants require
>>constant realtime feeds of information from many points in
>>the process, which are owned and offered by various companies
>>of various sizes and IT capabilities.
>>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network
>>operating framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
>>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event
>>causation techniques and other things like shared industry
>>process B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
>>
>>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
>>
>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3
>>is closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
>>
>>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real
>>world use cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS
>>and shine a light on successful implementations
>>
>>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and
>>agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent
>>stuff is the long-term target)
>>
>>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have
>>consistent direction towards convergence
>>
>>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
>>verge of a major break in what I think is so far a
>>stagnation. The potential of the internet is clear - and
>>everyone is aware that it's potential is more than just human
>>readable web pages. We all feel it, business has been
>>preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all want to build it.
>>
>>However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
>>
>>a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging
>>between partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
>>
>>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
>>
>>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn
>>out mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the
>>entire movement)
>>
>>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of
>>these problems. I would like to help by completing the
>>patterns and the catalog of patterns, and publish the use
>>cases to describe it. There also needs to be a major outreach
>>effort to all industry groups that are building shared
>>business processes (which by the way, look much more complex
>>than simple request-response models).
>>
>>That's it, I guess....
>>
>>John
>>313.930.5323
>>
>>Monica J. Martin wrote:
>>
>>>John,
>>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
>>
>>MacKenzie was
>>
>>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you
>>
>>could provide
>>
>>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
>>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update on ebSOA
>>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
>>
>>ebSOA would
>>
>>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for ebXML. Your
>>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>~~~~~~~~~
>>john c hardin
>>sanghainteractive.com
>>313.930.5323 cell
>>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>
>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
>>the image of a global village."
>>
>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
~~~~~~~~~
john c hardin
sanghainteractive.com
313.930.5323 cell
mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of
a global village."
Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
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