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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
Besides the ebXML TC, here is the Feature Preview from last year:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/4383/ebMSv3FeaturePreview
Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public information on
> this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable
> information.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Joseph Chiusano
> Booz Allen Hamilton
> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM
>>To: David Webber (XML)
>>Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull;
>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; [email protected];
>>tony.scott@gm.com; [email protected]; [email protected];
>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; [email protected];
>>golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; [email protected];
>>tdean@criticaltech.net; [email protected]; James Bryce Clark
>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>
>>That would be the list, thanks David.
>>Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to
>>encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other
>>WS* specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious
>>point is that we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the
>>other side....
>>
>>john
>>
>>David Webber (XML) wrote:
>>
>>>Joe,
>>>
>>>That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
>>>
>>>We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated architecture
>>>that documents the new capabilities that all this enables.
>>>
>>>Thanks, DW
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
>>>To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
>>><Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber"
>>
>><david@drrw.info>; "Duane
>>
>>>Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <[email protected]>;
>>><jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <[email protected]>;
>>><john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <[email protected]>;
>>
>><ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>;
>>
>>><ronschuldt@msn.com>; <[email protected]>; "John Casillas"
>>><johnc@mbproject.org>; <[email protected]>;
>>><tdean@criticaltech.net>; <[email protected]>;
>>
>>"James Bryce Clark"
>>
>>><jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
>>>Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>
>>>
>>><Quote>
>>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
>>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote>
>>>
>>>Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Joe
>>>
>>>Joseph Chiusano
>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
>>>>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
>>>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; [email protected];
>>>>tony.scott@gm.com; [email protected]; [email protected];
>>>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; [email protected];
>>
>>golsen@contivo.com; John
>>
>>>>Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; [email protected];
>>>>ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
>>>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>>
>>>>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
>>>>
>>>>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to
>>>>enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or
>>
>>just for
>>
>>>>ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about
>>>>addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie
>>>>the other night, and got some direction from both him and
>>
>>from Duane.
>>
>>>>I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump
>>>>how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call
>>>>next Wed if allowed.
>>>>
>>>>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward
>>
>>with the work
>>
>>>>from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards
>>>
>>>>interoperability among the upcoming business process
>>
>>frameworks (WS*,
>>
>>>>ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The
>>>>request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't
>>
>>currently
>>
>>>>mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have
>>>>developed in their shared business processes. For example,
>>
>>no one will
>>
>>>>argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive
>>
>>industry is a
>>
>>>>request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another
>>>>area that is very complex, and requires multiple
>>
>>interactions between
>>
>>>>large numbers of process participants to complete the information
>>>>exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution.
>>>>
>>>>The other reality is that process participants require constant
>>>>realtime feeds of information from many points in the
>>
>>process, which
>>
>>>>are owned and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT
>>>>capabilities.
>>>>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating
>>>>framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
>>>>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event causation
>>>>techniques and other things like shared industry process B.A.M. on
>>>>top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
>>>>
>>>>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
>>>>
>>>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
>>>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
>>>>
>>>>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use
>>>>cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and
>>
>>shine a light
>>
>>>>on successful implementations
>>>>
>>>>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent
>>>>patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the
>>>>long-term target)
>>>>
>>>>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent
>>>>direction towards convergence
>>>>
>>>>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
>>
>>verge of a
>>
>>>>major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The
>>
>>potential of
>>
>>>>the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's
>>
>>potential is
>>
>>>>more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it,
>>
>>business has
>>
>>>>been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all
>>
>>want to build
>>
>>>>it.
>>>>
>>>>However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
>>>>
>>>>a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between
>>>>partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
>>>>
>>>>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
>>>>
>>>>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out
>>>>mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire
>>
>>movement)
>>
>>>>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these
>>>>problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the
>>>>catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe
>>
>>it. There
>>
>>>>also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry
>>
>>groups that
>>
>>>>are building shared business processes (which by the way, look much
>>>>more complex than simple request-response models).
>>>>
>>>>That's it, I guess....
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>>313.930.5323
>>>>
>>>>Monica J. Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>John,
>>>>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
>>>>
>>>>MacKenzie was
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you
>>>>
>>>>could provide
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
>>>>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update
>>
>>on ebSOA
>>
>>>>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
>>>>
>>>>ebSOA would
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for
>>
>>ebXML. Your
>>
>>>>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>~~~~~~~~~
>>>>john c hardin
>>>>sanghainteractive.com
>>>>313.930.5323 cell
>>>>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>>>
>>>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
>>
>>the image
>>
>>>>of a global village."
>>>>
>>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>~~~~~~~~~
>>john c hardin
>>sanghainteractive.com
>>313.930.5323 cell
>>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>
>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
>>the image of a global village."
>>
>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
~~~~~~~~~
john c hardin
sanghainteractive.com
313.930.5323 cell
mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of
a global village."
Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
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