office-collab — archive

[Svante Schubert]

Please find the IRC log of today's meeting below. Our next meeting will be next year on the 15th of January. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2014&month=01&day=15&hour=15&min=30&sec=0&p1=179&p2=37&p3=136&p4=234&iv=1800 https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/event.php?event_id=36613 The teleconference login data for next call will be found in the OASIS calendar event (URL above). Attendees: John, Oliver, Friedrich, Jos, Peter, Patrick, Rob, Svante. anonymous morphed into Jos van den Oever Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: moin moin from Hamburg Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: only some days left to get all my xmas gifts Svante Schubert: I got a problem with the access code Svante Schubert: Rob, can you open the call please? Svante Schubert: or Patrick? Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: I am hearing music [16:33]  Svante Schubert: worked [16:34]  Rob Weir: Sorry, missed your note. I was enjoying the music too much. [16:34]  Svante Schubert: Next meeting https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/event.php?event_id=36613 [16:34]  Svante Schubert: 15th of Janauraary [16:35]  anonymous morphed into Friedrich [16:36]  Svante Schubert: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-collab/201312/msg00008.html [16:37]  Svante Schubert: with an example of XML changes to be serialized [16:40]  Svante Schubert: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#element-style_text-properties [16:41]  Svante Schubert: the properties element of type text is similar to the XML element [16:42]  Svante Schubert: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/download.php/51764/latest/OpenDocument-v1.3-wd01-part5-changetracking.odt [16:45]  Jos van den Oever: a user action might result in multiple operations [16:46]  Jos van den Oever: in these cases it would be nice to group the operations [16:46]  Svante Schubert: Oliver: Another example for combining operations: convert text to table or table to text function [16:48]  Svante Schubert: Oliver: Search/Replace another example [16:49]  Svante Schubert: BTW regarding the example operation naming: The reason in the example document to use add / format / delete elements instead of addParagraph, formatParagraph, etc. was to keep the new element set low for ODF 1.3. Was once a comment of Rob. [16:50]  Jos van den Oever: do we have a list of valid values for @type in type= paragraph ? [16:50]  Friedrich: grouped operations (e.g. from user actions) could have a certain semantic. for displaying those groups back in the UI (e.g. in Undo menu) the semantic needs to be localized [16:51]  Svante Schubert: Using a new default namespace: <undo xmlns= docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.3/os/part5/relaxng#changes > [16:51]  Svante Schubert: Using a new default namespace: <undo xmlns= docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.3/os/part5/relaxng#changes > [16:51]  Friedrich: *the name of the semantic [16:51]  Svante Schubert: @Jos: The valid list is the list of components [16:53]  Svante Schubert: 6. Bundles of Metadata Metadata can be added in sets. Styles are a prominent example. [16:53]  Svante Schubert: They do not count as a component (moving others in position) [16:54]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: I think Jos intention is to simplify parsing [16:55]  Svante Schubert: Dependent on the value of the @type attribute, there are different co-attributes [16:58]  Jos van den Oever: it's confusing that an <add/> may or may not be localized [16:58]  Svante Schubert: localized like in relation to position not I8N [16:58]  Svante Schubert: right? [16:59]  Jos van den Oever: no, i mean have a location in the document [16:59]  Svante Schubert: okay [16:59]  Jos van den Oever: maybe it makes sense to have e.g. <set/> and <unset/> for global properties [16:59]  Jos van den Oever: such as style definitions [17:01]  Jos van den Oever: and reserve <add/> for things that go into the document flow [17:01]  Jos van den Oever: note: there are multiple flows, e.g. the flow in frames is different from the main one [17:02]  Svante Schubert: Rob: Making the set of the XML as small as possible, but not smaller.. [17:03]  Svante Schubert: On the other hand, we might provide an extra element/operation for all ops changing a position [17:04]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: I think we should follow Jos' proposal to distinguish these kind of operations [17:04]  Svante Schubert: The measurement for Fonts are by default in 'pt', all other length units are normalized to 1/100 millimeter [17:06]  Jos van den Oever: why not have explicit units all the time? [17:06]  Jos van den Oever: why not have explicit units all the time? [17:06]  Svante Schubert: Because otherwise you have to check for the run-time all the time [17:06]  Svante Schubert: You always choose a unit when you serialize to XML [17:07]  Jos van den Oever: having only one type of unit per physical quantity does simplify the spec [17:07]  Jos van den Oever: are decimal values allowed? [17:08]  Svante Schubert: only integer [17:08]  Jos van den Oever: decimal != integer [17:08]  Jos van den Oever: why integers instead of decimals? [17:11]  Friedrich: so no micro-documents possible? [17:12]  Svante Schubert: Oliver: Draw document, which is the specification of a processor layout. You use units for your layout, than the 1/100 millimeter is not enough. [17:13]  Jos van den Oever: Oliver says that currently OpenOffice can have a drawing of very small dimensions, e.g. 1e-9 (nm) for processor layout [17:14]  Svante Schubert: Oliver: Ops would otherwise limit former ODF specs [17:14]  Jos van den Oever: the drawing is then scaled to look nice [17:14]  Jos van den Oever: the drawing is then scaled to look nice [17:14]  Svante Schubert: Something else: [17:14]  Svante Schubert: <format type= text start= /2/12 end= /2/22 > <properties type= text url= _blank href= http://thesaurus.com/browse/good%20example%22/ >http://thesaurus.com/browse/good%20example / > </format> [17:15]  Svante Schubert: A different mapping of hyperlinks [17:15]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: on mute again [17:17]  Jos van den Oever: is <b></b> retained? [17:18]  Jos van den Oever: and is it a reachable position for a cursor? [17:18]  Svante Schubert: Good for rount-trip of spreadsheet cells, where deleting the content in the GUI the hyperlink is saved after save/load roundtrip and editing content again [17:19]  Svante Schubert: Remember a paragraph with only an empty span with automatic style is similar to a paragraph with having the span text style as its automatic style! [17:19]  Svante Schubert: Remember a paragraph with only an empty span with automatic style is similar to a paragraph with having the span text style as its automatic style! [17:20]  Svante Schubert: Friedrich: Seems more an run-time behavior problem than a serialization problem for CT [17:22]  Svante Schubert: <add type= style parent= Heading displayName= Heading 1 next= Normal > <properties type= text color= #3b006f fontSize= 18 fontWeight= bold /> <properties type= paragraph outlineLevel= 1 marginTop= 847 paddingTop= 212 /> </add> [17:23]  Svante Schubert: outlineLevel= 1 [17:24]  Svante Schubert: The default is 0 there is no ODF limit, in AOO/LO the limit is 10 in MSO 9 [17:24]  Svante Schubert: The default is 0 there is no ODF limit, in AOO/LO the limit is 10 in MSO 9 [17:26]  Svante Schubert: Jos: How to distinguish lists and numberParagraphs and Headings. [17:26]  Svante Schubert: Lists and numberedParagraph are 100% identical (aside of the ODF XML serialization). BTW IMHO numberedParagraph is boilerplate and should be depreacted. [17:27]  Friedrich: 19.844.4 <text:h> The text:outline-level attribute specifies the level of a heading, starting with 1. Headings without a level attribute are assumed to be at level 1. [17:28]  Friedrich: So not sure if default is 0 is right? [17:28]  Svante Schubert: default is being a paragraph [17:28]  Svante Schubert: as soon it is higher 0 the paragraph becomes a heading [17:30]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: if we treat text and text:h the same then I think 'outlinelevel=0' is the default [17:30]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: bye [17:30]  Svante Schubert: There is no heading/list component, only paragraphs with outlineLevel/listLevel.. [17:30]  Svante Schubert: byebye