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Subject: [no subject]
2 : the fulfillment of a claim, promise, or request : IMPLEMENTATION =
<http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3Dimplementat=
ion>=20
3 a : the action of representing a character in a play b : a public =
presentation or exhibition <a benefit performance>
4 a : the ability to perform =
<http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3Dperform> =
: EFFICIENCY =
<http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3Defficiency>=
b : the manner in which a mechanism performs =
<http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3Dperforms> =
<engine performance>
5 : the manner of reacting to stimuli : BEHAVIOR =
<http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3Dbehavior>=20
6 : the linguistic behavior of an individual : PAROLE =
<http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3Dparole> ; =
also : the ability to speak a certain language -- compare COMPETENCE =
<http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3Dcompetence+=
> 3=20
=20
Regards,
=20
William
-----Original Message-----
From: Sedukhin, Igor S [mailto:Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com]=20
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:21 AM
To: ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1); wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsdm] [OMod] minutes of Oct 21th 2003 call
=09
=09
Zulah,
=20
Thank you for correcting the minutes. Those were important points I =
forgot to capture.
=20
About the metric/performance, do you want the group to discuss it as an =
issue or was it just a note? Currently it says Metrics on slide 17.
=20
And immediately I have this use case. If, say, request counters are =
used for security audits, then are those counters performance =
information or security information or audit information or are they =
simply metrics? Are all known "metrics" performance only? Can anyone =
guarantee that?
If a metric is a number of autentication failures on the resource, is =
that related to performance as well?
=20
-- Igor Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)=20
-- (631) 342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788=20
=20
=09
=09
_____ =20
From: ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1) [mailto:zulah_eckert@hp.com]=20
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 12:36 PM
To: Sedukhin, Igor S; wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsdm] [OMod] minutes of Oct 21th 2003 call
=09
=09
For issue #1 I have a few clarifications. We did agree to the =
capabilities listed in the first bullet of slide 17, however the =
following discussion took place:
=20
* This is the model for capabilities - not the mapping to an interface. =
As a model, it represents the kinds of manageability capabilities that =
we expect Web services to have. The mapping to an interface might be =
based on a different set of categories (perhaps based on access control =
requirements). So, the information model and the interface mapping are =
different things and will be based on different requirements.
=20
* The term "atomic manageability capability" was not agreeable to the =
group because the capabilities are not atomic.
=20
I also would like to call out my preference for the term "performance" =
over "metric" as many of the things that will fall into this category =
(based on MTF discussions) are counters from which metrics might be =
taken. What everything in this group has in common is that it relates to =
the performance of the resource under management.
=20
Zulah
-----Original Message-----
From: Sedukhin, Igor S [mailto:Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:46 AM
To: wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [wsdm] [OMod] minutes of Oct 21th 2003 call
=09
=09
Roll: Igor, BrianC, DanF, William, Zulah, Heather, Alexandro, Fred, =
Andrea
=20
Approval of minutes =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00075.html
approved
=20
Agenda
=20
ISSUE 1: identifying one atomic manageability capability which we can =
model with props/ops/events/metadata, can we just stick to slide 17?
In other words: do we lump all operations/props/events into one UML =
piece (class) or do we split classes as indicated on slide 17.
=20
[long discussion not recorded]
DECISION: we will start defining a UML model componentized according =
to categories (concerns, capabilities) expressed on the slide 17 =
subbulets of the first bullet.
Igor: will send empty UML model with those components
=20
=09
ISSUE 2: manageability of a web service: inferred from manageable =
endpoints or do we need to define manageable service separately
The former means that an endpoint's manageability information is =
sufficient to infer manageability of a service. The manager can do it =
and may represent the manageable service which we may define later, but =
not now. The later means that we define manageable service as a separate =
concept and associate manageability capabilities and information with it =
and not with an endpoint.
=20
[long discussion on the culprits of the web service concepts, not =
recorded]
DECISION: we will not define separate model for a manageable service
ACTION: William to provide text on inferring manageability of a =
service from manageable endpoints (generally, no specifics of how)
William's concern about manageability information to capture =
relationship of endpoints and services separately from WSDL/UDDI, etc. =
was postponed until we get to discuss the actual manageability model =
with concete properties, etc. William will propose and justify concrete =
elements of the model at that point.
=20
=20
ISSUE 3: aggregation of manageability to the endpoint level is a =
responsibility of the provider of manageability (need text for the =
concepts section)
This is clear, but needs an action item on someone to provide the =
text.
=20
=09
BrianC's input: =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00080.html
Igor's answer: =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00081.html
=20
ACTION: Fred to provide text for the ISSUE 3.
=20
=09
ISSUE 4 (by BrianC): concepts of versioning have to be applied to the =
MOWS Concepts diagram
Igor: yes, but may be as details of the concepts diagram: pick =
elements that are necessary to express the versioning/revision concepts =
and draw a diagram complimentary to the main diagram
ACTION: BrianC to provide a versioning concepts diagram=20
=20
BrianC's input =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00080.html
=20
BrianC presented the UML diagram on the page 3 of the =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/doc00006.doc =
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/doc00006.doc>=20
- revisions are infromation about the an element
- change descriptions are information about transitions between =
revisions
[Andrea's comments?? sorry, didn't capture them]
BrianC: question to the group: should revision concepts be part of the =
main diagram or a detail diagram that compliments the main diagram?
Andrea, DanF, Igor: complimentary detail diagram
DanF&Igor had a concern that version has to be expressed as well. For =
example a versioned service "is a" service with version as an =
attribution. Revisions are written against versioned elements =
(associated to). This applies to all other elements that can be =
versioned.
BrianC agreed.
ACTION: BrianC to align the versioning/revision/change detail UML =
diagram with the MOWS Concepts diagram and incorporate "versioned X is =
an X" elements.
=20
CALL CLOSED
=20
ISSUE 5: using =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00067.html UML =
approach
=09
ACTION: BrianC to attempt to express ManageableEndpointState UML =
information model linked directly to the web service endpoint state =
diagrams designed by the W3C Arch MTF.
=20
Igor's simplified proposal: =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00082.html and other =
possible choices =
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00083.html
=20
NOT DISCUSSED
=20
=09
ISSUE 6: There is a need for another diagram to display the "locus of =
implementation" concepts.
Essentially the diagram to depict relationships between manageable =
endpoint in MOWS Concepts and manageability endpoint in MUWS.
ACTION: Igor to provide "locus of implementation" concepts diagram for =
MOWS.
See http://www.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00076.html
=20
NOT DISCUSSED
=20
=09
ISSUE 7: another diagram that shows relationships of MUWS and MOWS =
concepts (possibly aggregation/composition of manageability =
capabilities).=20
=20
NOT DISCUSSED
-- Igor Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)=20
-- (631) 342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788=20
------_=_NextPart_001_01C39CD6.F3677B6D
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631435821-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I guess your example with a car would be =
definition 4a=20
which is, as indicated, similar to "efficiency". 1a would be too broad, =
anything=20
can go under that definition and it is as good as not having any =
categories at=20
all. For example, information about state changing from up to down =
can also=20
be classified as "performance" under 1a. So, let's say 4a is the =
one, then=20
I still have a problem qualifying number of authorization failures under =
4a. It=20
is a not a measure of efficiency of the function of the=20
resource.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D631435821-27102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Applied to your car example, the performance of a car does not =
include,=20
in the common sense, the number of times the user gets a =
ticket for=20
parking in a wrong place. That number could be a very interesting metric =
on an=20
individual car with a license plate attached to it =
:).</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#800080 =
size=3D2>--</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><B> </B></FONT><B><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Igor=20
Sedukhin</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Arial Black"=20
color=3D#c0c0c0 size=3D2>..</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#800080 size=3D2>(</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>igor.sedukhin@ca.com</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800080=20
size=3D2>)</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3D"Arial =
Black"=20
color=3D#800080 size=3D2>--</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><B> =
<FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#808080 size=3D2>(631) 342-4325</FONT></B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> <FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#c0c0c0 =
size=3D2>..</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
size=3D2>1 CA Plaza,=20
Islandia, NY 11788</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Dru></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Dru></SPAN> </P>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> VAMBENEPE,WILLIAM =
(HP-Cupertino,ex1)=20
[mailto:vbp@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 27, 2003 4:21=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Sedukhin, Igor S; ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1);=20
wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [wsdm] [OMod] minutes =
of Oct=20
21th 2003 call<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>I think it is very restrictive to interpret performance only =
through the=20
angle of throughput. Performance is about how the resource is performing =
its=20
task. If the tasks of the resource include processing (or=20
requesting) authentication tasks, then yes, the number of =
authentication=20
failures is part of the performance of the resource.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>For a sport car fan, performance of a car is limited to max =
speed and=20
acceleration, but for a real user or a manager (mechanic) of a car it =
contains a=20
lot more than this, including how often the electric sunroof failed to =
close=20
properly and the driver got rained on. Performance is just how the =
resource=20
executes the tasks it is designed to execute.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>From Webster.com:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003>Main Entry:=20
<B>per=B7for=B7mance</B><BR>Pronunciation:=20
<TT>p&(r)-'for-m&n(t)s</TT><BR>Function: <I>noun</I><BR>Date: =
15th=20
century<BR><B>1 a</B> <B>:</B> the execution of an action <B>b</B> =
<B>:</B>=20
something accomplished <B>: <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
deed"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>DEED</FONT></A>, <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
feat"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>FEAT</FONT></A></B><BR><B>2</B> <B>:</B> the fulfillment of a =
claim,=20
promise, or request <B>: <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
implementation"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>IMPLEMENTATION</FONT></A></B><BR><B>3 a</B> <B>:</B> the =
action of=20
representing a character in a play <B>b</B> <B>:</B> a public =
presentation or=20
exhibition <a benefit <I>performance</I>><BR><B>4 a</B> <B>:</B> =
the=20
ability to <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
perform">perform</A>=20
<B>: <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
efficiency"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>EFFICIENCY</FONT></A></B> <B>b</B> <B>:</B> the manner in =
which a=20
mechanism <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
performs">performs</A>=20
<engine <I>performance</I>><BR><B>5</B> <B>:</B> the manner of =
reacting to=20
stimuli <B>: <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
behavior"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>BEHAVIOR</FONT></A></B><BR><B>6</B> <B>:</B> the linguistic =
behavior of=20
an individual <B>: <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
parole"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>PAROLE</FONT></A></B>; <I>also</I> <B>:</B> the ability to =
speak a=20
certain language -- compare <A=20
href=3D"http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&va=3D=
competence+"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>COMPETENCE </FONT></A>3 </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D365061321-27102003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>William</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
Sedukhin, Igor S=20
[mailto:Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 27, =
2003 10:21=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1);=20
wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [wsdm] [OMod] minutes =
of Oct=20
21th 2003 call<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Zulah,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thank you for correcting the minutes. Those =
were=20
important points I forgot to capture.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>About the metric/performance, do you want the =
group to=20
discuss it as an issue or was it just a note? Currently it says =
Metrics=20
on slide 17.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>And immediately I have this use case. If,=20
say, request counters are used for security audits, then are =
those=20
counters performance information or security information or audit =
information=20
or are they simply metrics? Are all known "metrics" performance only? =
Can=20
anyone guarantee that?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D345561118-27102003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If a metric is a number =
of autentication=20
failures on the resource, is that related to performance as=20
well?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#800080=20
size=3D2>--</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B> </B></FONT><B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Igor Sedukhin</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>=20
<FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#c0c0c0 size=3D2>..</FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800080 =
size=3D2>(</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>igor.sedukhin@ca.com</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800080 =
size=3D2>)</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3D"Arial =
Black"=20
color=3D#800080 size=3D2>--</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><B> <FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#808080 size=3D2>(631) 342-4325</FONT></B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> <FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#c0c0c0 =
size=3D2>..</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
size=3D2>1 CA Plaza,=20
Islandia, NY 11788</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Dru></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Dru></SPAN>=20
</P>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#008080 size=3D2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ECKERT,ZULAH =
(HP-Cupertino,ex1)=20
[mailto:zulah_eckert@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 27, 2003 =
12:36=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Sedukhin, Igor S;=20
wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [wsdm] [OMod] minutes =
of Oct=20
21th 2003 call<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>For=20
issue #1 I have a few clarifications. We did agree to the capabilities =
listed=20
in the first bullet of slide 17, however the following discussion took =
place:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>*=20
This is the model for capabilities - not the mapping to an interface. =
As a=20
model, it represents the kinds of manageability capabilities that we =
expect=20
Web services to have. The mapping to an interface might be based =
on a=20
different set of categories (perhaps based on access control =
requirements).=20
So, the information model and the interface mapping are different =
things and=20
will be based on different requirements.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>*=20
The term "atomic manageability capability" was not agreeable to the =
group=20
because the capabilities are not atomic.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I=20
also would like to call out my preference for the term=20
"performance" over "metric" as many of the things that will fall =
into=20
this category (based on MTF discussions) are counters from which =
metrics might=20
be taken. What everything in this group has in common is that it =
relates to=20
the performance of the resource under management.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D296252617-27102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Zulah</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
Sedukhin, Igor=20
S [mailto:Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October =
21, 2003=20
11:46 AM<BR><B>To:</B> wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[wsdm]=20
[OMod] minutes of Oct 21th 2003 call<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>Roll: =
Igor, BrianC,=20
DanF, William, Zulah, Heather, Alexandro, Fred,=20
Andrea</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>Approval =
of minutes=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00075.html";>h=
ttp://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00075.html</A></SPAN><=
/SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003>approved</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003>Agenda</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D732020819-17102003><STRONG>ISSUE<SPAN =
class=3D654185116-20102003>=20
1</SPAN></STRONG>: identifying one atomic manageability capability =
which we=20
can model with props/ops/events/metadata, can we just stick to slide =
17?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In=20
other words: do we lump all operations/props/events into one UML =
piece=20
(class) or do we split classes as indicated on slide =
17.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#ff0000=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>[long discussion not=20
recorded]</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#ff0000=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>DECISION: we will start =
defining a UML=20
model componentized according to categories (concerns, capabilities) =
expressed on the slide 17 subbulets of the first=20
bullet.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#ff0000=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>Igor: will send empty UML =
model with=20
those components</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><STRONG>ISSUE<SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003> =
2</SPAN></STRONG>:=20
manageability of a web service: inferred from manageable=20
endpoints or <SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003>do </SPAN>we =
need to=20
define manageable service separately</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The former means that an =
endpoint's=20
manageability information is sufficient to infer manageability of a =
service.=20
The manager can do it and may represent the manageable service which =
we may=20
define later, but not now. The later means that we define manageable =
service=20
as a separate concept and associate manageability capabilities and=20
information with it and not with an =
endpoint.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>[long discussion on the =
culprits of the web=20
service concepts, not recorded]</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>DECISION: we will not define =
separate model=20
for a manageable service</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>ACTION: William to provide =
text on inferring=20
manageability of a service from manageable endpoints (generally, no=20
specifics of how)</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>William's concern about =
manageability=20
information to capture relationship of endpoints and services =
separately=20
from WSDL/UDDI, etc. was postponed until we get to discuss the =
actual=20
manageability model with concete properties, etc. William will =
propose and=20
justify concrete elements of the model at that=20
point.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><STRONG>ISSUE<SPAN =
class=3D654185116-20102003>=20
3</SPAN></STRONG>: aggregation of manageability to the endpoint =
level is a=20
responsibility of the provider of manageability (need text for the =
concepts=20
section)</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>This is=20
clear, but needs an action item on someone to provide the=20
text.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>BrianC's input: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00080.html";>h=
ttp://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00080.html</A></SPAN><=
/FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>Igor's answer: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00081.html";>h=
ttp://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00081.html</A></SPAN><=
/FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#ff0000=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>ACTION: Fred to provide =
text for the=20
ISSUE 3.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><STRONG>ISSUE<SPAN=20
class=3D654185116-20102003> 4</SPAN></STRONG> (by BrianC): =
concepts=20
of versioning have to be applied to the MOWS Concepts=20
diagram</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Igor: yes, but may be as details of the concepts diagram: =
pick=20
elements that are necessary to express the versioning/revision =
concepts and=20
draw a diagram complimentary to the main diagram</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2>ACTION: BrianC to provide a =
versioning concepts=20
diagram<SPAN=20
=
class=3D432123516-21102003> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D432123516-21102003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV=
></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003>BrianC's=20
input <A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00080.html";>h=
ttp://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00080.html</A></SPAN><=
/FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#ff0000>BrianC=20
presented the UML diagram on the page 3 of the </FONT><A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/doc00006.doc";><F=
ONT=20
=
color=3D#ff0000>http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/doc00006=
.doc</FONT></A></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>- revisions=20
are infromation about the an =
element</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>- change=20
descriptions are information about transitions between=20
revisions</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>[Andrea's=20
comments?? sorry, didn't capture =
them]</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>BrianC:=20
question to the group: should revision concepts be part of the main =
diagram=20
or a detail diagram that compliments the main=20
diagram?</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>Andrea, DanF,=20
Igor: complimentary detail diagram</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>DanF&Igor=20
had a concern that version has to be expressed as well. For example =
a=20
versioned service "is a" service with version as an attribution. =
Revisions=20
are written against versioned elements (associated to). This applies =
to all=20
other elements that can be =
versioned.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>BrianC=20
agreed.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2>ACTION:=20
BrianC to align the versioning/revision/change detail UML diagram =
with the=20
MOWS Concepts diagram and incorporate "versioned X is an X"=20
elements.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>CALL=20
CLOSED</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN=20
class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><STRONG>ISSUE=20
5</STRONG>: using <A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00067.html";>h=
ttp://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00067.html</A> UM=
L=20
approach</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D732020819-17102003>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ACTION: BrianC to attempt to=20
express ManageableEndpointState UML information model =
linked=20
directly to the web service endpoint state diagrams designed by the =
W3C Arch=20
MTF.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Igor's simplified proposal: <A =
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00082.html";>h=
ttp://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00082.html</A> an=
d=20
other possible choices <A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00083.html";>h=
ttp://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00083.html</A></FONT><=
/SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D432123516-21102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>NOT =
DISCUSSED</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><STRONG>ISSUE<SPAN class=3D654185116-20102003> =
6</SPAN></STRONG>: There=20
is a need for another diagram to display the "locus of =
implementation"=20
concepts.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D654185116-20102003>E</SPAN>ssentially=20
the diagram to depict relationships between manageable endpoint in =
MOWS=20
Concepts and manageability endpoint in=20
MUWS.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ACTION: Igor to provide "locus of implementation" =
concepts=20
diagram for MOWS.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><SPAN =
class=3D654185116-20102003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>See <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00076.html";>htt=
p://www.oasis-open.org/archives/wsdm/200310/msg00076.html</A></FONT></SPA=
N></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>NOT=20
DISCUSSED</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>ISSUE<SPAN =
class=3D654185116-20102003>=20
7</SPAN></STRONG>: another diagram that shows relationships of MUWS =
and MOWS=20
concepts (possibly aggregation/composition of manageability=20
capabilities).<SPAN=20
=
class=3D432123516-21102003> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D432123516-21102003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732020819-17102003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D432123516-21102003>NOT=20
=
DISCUSSED</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></D=
IV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format =
-->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#800080=20
size=3D2>--</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B> =
</B></FONT><B><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Igor Sedukhin</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>=20
<FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#c0c0c0 size=3D2>..</FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800080 =
size=3D2>(</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>igor.sedukhin@ca.com</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800080=20
size=3D2>)</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3D"Arial =
Black"=20
color=3D#800080 size=3D2>--</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><B> <FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#808080 size=3D2>(631) 342-4325</FONT></B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> <FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#c0c0c0 =
size=3D2>..</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
size=3D2>1 CA Plaza,=20
Islandia, NY 11788</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Dru></SPAN><SPAN =
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