xml-dev - Re: Coca-Cola Data [Was RE: Is this Impossible !!]

["Steve Muench" <smuench@us.oracle.com>]

Mark,

I'm not advocating returning the SQL query results
in a SQL-query-results-looking format.

By combining XSLT transformation with canonical
SQL query results (including richly nested
query results from an object/relational database)
you can achieve the situation where what the
user gets back is exactly the XML document you
want it to be.

The point about a common XML-based query language
is right. Folks from many companies are now working
in the XML Query Working group to try and nail that
syntax for the future...

________________________________________________________
Steve Muench, BC4J Development Team & XML Evangelist
http://technet.oracle.com/tech/java
http://technet.oracle.com/tech/xml
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Birbeck <Mark.Birbeck@iedigital.net>
To: <xml-dev@ic.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:14 AM
Subject: Coca-Cola Data [Was RE: Is this Impossible !!]


| I think speed is not an issue. As a proportion of the time spent sending
| the query, extracting the data and then packaging it up for return, the
| time you take to convert the query from one syntax to another is
| negligible.
|
| However, what you lose by using SQL syntax IS an issue. You have data
| stored in a relational database which you query in a relational way, but
| then return the results as a node set. This seems OK, until you consider
| what you have presented to the outside world - a node set which can be
| queried using SQL syntax. Now, imagine that someone else stores their
| data in an object database, but also returns their results in XML. They
| are presenting a node set which can be queried using some object query
| syntax.
|
| So we have two sets of data that to the outside world have similar
| structure - they are both a set of hierarchical nodes - but which have
| two different ways of being queried. Not good. Add to that, that the
| person who did the object database may convert you to his way of
| thinking and you then want to ditch your relational database, and
| suddenly all those queries that people have set up to access your server
| have to change.
|
| My point is simply that just as you return data from your server in a
| common format - XML - so too you should accept requests in a common
| format. You should convert requests in, say, XPath, to SQL queries or
| object queries or whatever queries. Otherwise you are not really
| presenting an XML-interface to your data.
|
| And we'll never get the Coca-Cola effect (the whole world singing the
| same song, if you're wondering).
|
| Best regards,
|
| Mark Birbeck
| x-port.net Ltd.
|
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: AlanM [mailto:AlanM@SYNECTICS.Soft.net]
| > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 5:11 PM
| > To: xml-dev@ic.ac.uk
| > Subject: RE: Is this Impossible !!
| >
| >
| >
| > Hi guys,
| > Since speed is criteria is it faster to send Queries to the
| > server in SQL or
| > XML. If sent in XML we will have to parse it and then convert
| > it into SQL
| > again, which may slow down the process.
| >
| >
| > > -----Original Message-----
| > > From: Mark Birbeck [SMTP:Mark.Birbeck@iedigital.net]
| > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 8:29 PM
| > > To: xml dev mailing list
| > > Subject: RE: Is this Impossible !!
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Hi everyone,
| > >
| > > Very busy so can't give you in depth on this, but I note
| > that you are
| > > using VB scripting so here is a bit of code from a VB
| > script version of
| > > our SOAP server.
| > >
| > > It's not that complicated, but it provides you with an easy
| > way to create
| > > a results set from any values. For example, it could build
| > a node list
| > > from a three element array, with the first element being
| > another array
| > > that contains record sets, the second being an integer, and
| > the third
| > > being an XML DOM node (should you want to).
| > >
| > > Note that it copes with nested recordsets - which is great
| > if you are
| > > using the Microsoft data shaping facility in ADO. In fact using this
| > > routine and data shaping is probably the easiest way to get an XML
| > > document with real structure out of a relational database.
| > >
| > > Two quick things that are slightly off theme:
| > >
| > > First - if you are returning XML you should really consider
| > querying in
| > > XML. The client should not really be sending SQL queries
| > since you are not
| > > returning a SQL result set. You should accept an XML query
| > (say, using
| > > XPath) and then convert that on the server to an SQL query.
| > That way the
| > > fact that your data is currently relational will be hidden
| > (since it may
| > > change).
| > >
| > > Second - for those interested - note how much better SOAP
| > structure is
| > > than XML-RPC! I've fallen for it!!
| > >
| > > Best regards,
| > >
| > > Mark Birbeck
| > > x-port.net Ltd.
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > -----Original Message-----
| > > From: Goyal, Sanjeev [mailto:Sanjeev.Goyal@usa.xerox.com]
| > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 2:49 PM
| > > To: 'Abhishek Srivastava'
| > > Cc: xml dev mailing list
| > > Subject: RE: Is this Impossible !!
| > >
| > >
| > > Abhishek,
| > >
| > > Most of the XML Parser implementations provides mechanism to
| > > generate well formed XML documents from the DOM Tree. I
| > have used sun's
| > > XML parser, it provides APIs to generate well-formed XML from your
| > > Document Node.
| > >
| > > Hope it helps.
| > > Sanjeev
| > >
| > > -----Original Message-----
| > > From: Abhishek Srivastava [mailto:abisheks@india.hp.com]
| > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 1:29 AM
| > > To: xml dev mailing list
| > > Subject: Is this Immpossible !!
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Hi All,
| > >
| > > I have the following requirement. A client
| > wants to query a
| > > database. It sends out an SQL Query to the Database server.
| > At the server
| > > side, instead of returning a recordset, it returns an XML File.
| > >
| > > The client on receiving the XML file, parsers it for
| > > "Validity" (to be sure that all elements it had asked for
| > are there).
| > >
| > > Problem is that at the server side, How to build the xml
| > > document.
| > > Presently, I am doing something like this
| > >
| > > String("<Name>") + rs.getField("auName") +
| > String("</Name>")
| > >
| > > However, this is a very inelegant approach as
| > the code is
| > > full of such string concatenations.
| > >
| > > Is there a more elegant solution to this ?  All
| > the material
| > > on XML talks about parsing and reading XML. What about
| > writing them ? Are
| > > there DOM / SAX Api extensions available that would
| > > create "VALID" XML documents without clutter in
| > the code ?
| > >
| > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
| > >
| > > Thanks & Best Regards,
| > > Abhishek.
| > >
| > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| > >     _/               Abhishek Srivastava
| > >    _/                Hewlett Packard ISO
| > >   _/_/_/   _/_/_/    -------------------
| > > _/   /   _/  _/     (Work)   +91-80-2251554 x1190
| > > _/  _/   _/_/_/      (Ip)     15.10.47.37
| > >         _/           (Url)
| > > <http://sites.netscape.net/abhishes/homepage>
| >
| > >        _/            You've heard it all by
| > now. Get wired
| > > or get whacked.
| > >                      You're networking or you're not
| > > working. Dot-com or die
| > >                      - SUN MICROSYSTEMS
| > >
| > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| > >
| > >  << File: SOAP Return.asp >>
| >
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