Re: First Order Logic and Semantic Web RE: NPR, Godel, Semantic W eb

[Joel Rees <rees@server.mediafusion.co.jp>]

Hi, Len.

> Humans are in the loop.
>
> 1.  Are they the right humans?
>
> 2.  Do they have the legitimate authority to
> make the decisions they are making?
>
> 3.  Who has the legitimate authority to contest
> those decisions?  Who legitimized them? (it's
> about power, who has it, who believes they
> have it, who denies it, who decides)?
>
> 4.  What is the scope of consequences given a
> decision made using some semantic service?  (if
> it kills someone, who is culpable; if a stereotype
> denies a service, who is culpable)
>
> 5.  Can a decision be enforced?

I guess I asked a different question from I thought. What I had in mind was
to suggest (question?) the possibility of designing SW so that any semantic
loop that formed would be subject to human judgment on its validity as long
as it exists. A required timeout mechanism would also be useful. But I don't
think it would be possible to enforce.

>
> The Semantic Web will never be the universal or unified system
> some are talking about.  That is like a vertical vocabulary.
> The devil is in the details of name, semantic scope, and
> legitimate authority.   Limited scope systems survive.

<cute-remark>And here I thought the devil's entire problem was in being
unwilling to tackle details.</cute-remark>

> Listen to the comments concerning architecture and the web at
>
> http://technetcast.ddj.com/tnc_play_stream.html?stream_id=555

Hmm. My workstation is a server, won't play media stuff. I'll have to go
find a Mac.

> An architecture committee eventually becomes a Dean Martin Celebrity
> Roast:  scripted, cue cards, old jokes, tired old commedians, and lousy
> ratings.

Formal committees, huh?

> I don't fear a TAG.  I pity the poor yuks that have to serve
> on one of those.  They won't have guns; they won't even have
> body armor.  They will be closeted and because they will be
> in the closet, they will be defenseless when exposed.  No matter
> how many NDs are signed, no matter what blood oaths are taken,
> the rumors out the facts.   They can't enforce their decisions.
> They get cut off from change and ideas because they are
> feared and loathed, so eventually, they become irrelevant.
>
> The same thing happens to monolithic semantic systems unless
> they are scoped, have a means of resolving definitional clashes,
> and are easily turned off or turned down.   People don't put up
> with machines that tell them when a door is ajar.  They
> will use the console lights.  If the seatbelt has a switch that
> disables the ignition unless fastened, they or their best buddy
> hunt it down and disable it.  Mammals are relentlessly willful.
>
> Don't fear the reaper.  Or Gates.  The first guy has a natural
> function and the second guy needs your money to function.  A
> TAG is toothless without developers.  A semantic web needs
> someone to fill in the slots.  Discoverable harvested data
> that isn't vetted opens the developer of the code and the
> user of the code up to lawsuits.

I don't fear the reaper. The real reaper is my friend, and the guy who keeps
claiming he's the reaper is a fakir from the word go.

I don't fear Bill, either, although I don't particularly want to give Mserfs
any more room to waste my time with sales talk, and it's a pain to deal with
management that won't let me do a job that Bill says is already done and
didn't make any money.

> Legitimate authority:  AKA, who sez?  That is the crux of it.

It is, indeed.

>
> Len
> http://www.mp3.com/LenBullard
>
> Ekam sat.h, Vipraah bahudhaa vadanti.
> Daamyata. Datta. Dayadhvam.h
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Rees [mailto:rees@server.mediafusion.co.jp]
>
> Just had a thought. All this talk about making the system do things that
> humans are way better than computers at, what would the dangers of putting
> humans in the loop be? And would that defeat the purpose of SW?
>
> I, for one, hope that Bill and company are not breathing over anybody's
> shoulders to get SW out the door.

Joel Rees

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