RE: Things are not what they seem - was RE: [xml-dev] Urgently n eeda reality check on the job market for XML development

["Sterin, Ilya" <Isterin@ciber.com>]

Just to clear any confusions, by "I really don't think that the numerous
projects which you have been involved in will make a big impact on your job
search" I meant negative impact as you have been worried about it.

Ilya

-----Original Message-----
From: Sterin, Ilya
To: 'Bullard, Claude L (Len) '; '''xml-dev@lists.xml.org ' ' '
Sent: 9/21/01 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: Things are not what they seem  - was RE: [xml-dev] Urgently n
eed a reality check on the job market for XML development

Jerry, this is in response to your private email as well as some more
opinions...

Definitely as many have pointed out, your hobbies and what you do
outside of
work is a great concern to many employers.  Sure anyone can put on a one
hour act at the interview and most can do it for 8 hours a day, though
everyone wants to know what you do outside of that.  First by showing
that
you are involved in some projects outside of work (like open source
development, etc...) you are showing them that you enjoy your job and
you
are not doing in for one sole purpose of gaining finances.  That's a
great
plus.  If you are not currently involved in anything outside of work,
maybe
you should investigate and get involved, see www.sf.net for some
projects.
Also stating that you enjoy reading, researching, etc..., about your
line of
work, in this case IT, also won't hurt you.

Definitely the problem is and has been, that most of the people who do
the
hiring are not developers themselves and never have been.  They rely
either
on other standards which are not relevant to IT, or go by something
they've
been told or have briefly encountered while reading.  I think this is a
problem for IT folks as well as companies that are involved in any IT
development, since it decreases the quality of an employee since they
haven't been adequately tested.  I can only recall a few interview where
an
interviewer actually asked me technical (low level) questions to test my
development skills.  Others stay on a high level project overview, which
is
easily conquered by any candidate who has common sense and is willing to
prepare for the interview.

Again, I really don't think that the numerous projects which you have
been
involved in will make a big impact on your job search.  But if you still
believe it does, you might want to include some outside project that you
have been involved in or any research which has been long term.  A good
example would be if you are interested in XML and is a regular on the
list
for the past so many years and constantly follow the new proposals,
etc...,
this can definitely be included in the hobbies section.


Ilya


-----Original Message-----
From: Bullard, Claude L (Len)
To: Sterin, Ilya; ''xml-dev@lists.xml.org ' '
Sent: 9/21/01 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Things are not what they seem  - was RE: [xml-dev] Urgently
n
eed a reality check on the job market for XML development

For sure.  Problem is, some systems are never "done", 
they change with requirements, platform and infrastructure. 
We need people who understand that and can live with it.

Even this isn't the problem.  There are domains in which 
the hard expertise is the subject matter expertise.  Not 
how to program, but "what".  Given overlapping 
responsibilities, an employer might favor someone who 
can demonstrate both technical skills, fast learning, 
good ability to analyze previously unfamiliar material, 
and so on.  And some jobs are not challenging.  There 
are probably more opportunities for grunt programming 
than exciting innovative work.  Someone with a low 
boredom threshhold is not a good candidate for those 
jobs.

But Bray has the rules of thumb down pretty well, 
particularly, what do you do in your spare time. 
I'm interested in knowing that a bad day at the 
office can be undone by a good night at the 
<insert your hobby  here>.  Mental health...


Len
http://www.mp3.com/LenBullard

Ekam sat.h, Vipraah bahudhaa vadanti.
Daamyata. Datta. Dayadhvam.h


-----Original Message-----
From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:Isterin@ciber.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:59 AM
To: Bullard, Claude L (Len); ''xml-dev@lists.xml.org ' '
Subject: RE: Things are not what they seem - was RE: [xml-dev] Urgently
n eed a reality check on the job market for XML development


Well actually you learn as you work, so you'll get way more than six
months
of work out of me or anyone else in this case.  Most companies that
start IT
project, first hire a team of developers to complete, which is rarely
over
two years, though of course depends on finances, etc...  Most of the
developers are later let go and only a few remain for system
maintenance,
etc..., which I don't really consider development.  It includes making
minor
changes as well as bug fixes.  So sitting there and waiting for
something to
break or for someone to approve a small change, is not my kind of
excitement.  I work on projects that challenge me, so after the
challenge is
conquered it's time to move on, or face not liking your job after a
while.
Now I understand if you work for a software company, which initiates new
projects all the time, then yes, you can probably work there all your
life,
since challenges will always come.

Again I never said anything about leaving before the job is done, but
rather
leaving when your services are no longer ***really*** needed.  Though
most
prefer to sit and wait until they are laid off while acting as if they
are
working on something.  Seen it plenty of times.  Even have seen
developers
initiating a different project just to keep their job, although the
project
was not needed nor challenging to anyone.

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