RE: [xml-dev] Microsoft's deeply cynical appeal to"standards compliance"

[Joshua Allen <joshuaa@microsoft.com>]

Msn.com loads fine for me using Netscape 6.1, so it is apparently not an
issue with "non-IE" browsers.

On the other hand, that article is pretty alarming.  Many of our
standards people are at PDC right now, so they may not pick up on this
immediately; but I have faith that there will be some "clarifications"
and "adjustments" to the position stated there.  There is no way that
the quotes expressed are an accurate representation of Microsoft's
official stance on standards, and I expect that the behavior of MSN will
reflect this.

Thanks,
Joshua

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edd Dumbill [mailto:edd@usefulinc.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:10 PM
> To: XML-DEV
> Subject: [xml-dev] Microsoft's deeply cynical appeal to "standards
> compliance"
> 
> Readers of this list may have come across this story:
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011025/tc/msn_com_shuts_out_non-
> microsoft_browsers_1.html
> 
> The story has appeared on Slashdot too, but there's a particularly
> invidious angle to it which is worth raising in this community.
> 
> Basically, non-IE browsers are not being let into MSN.com.  Opera and
> Mozilla & derivatives are being shut out.  The Microsoft
representative,
> Bob Visse, the director of MSN marketing, handwaves saying that the
> reason these browsers are locked out is because MSN either don't know
> that they "support W3C standards" or they can't insure the customer
will
> get a "great experience."
> 
> [[ "We do identify the string from the browser, and the only issue
that
> we have is that the Opera browser doesn't support the latest XHTML
> standard," said Visse. "So we do suggest to those users that they go
> download a browser that does support the latest standards." ]]
> 
>     (Incidentally, does anyone recall that IE6 has proper XHTML
support,
>     I remember the Microsoft chap at WWW10 saying directly XHTML
support
>     wouldn't make it into version 6).
> 
> In fact, on my (Linux) Mozilla, I get a plain page telling me I need
to
> get IE for Windows or Mac.  Umm, thanks.
> 
> I'm pretty upset at them shutting out platforms they don't directly
> support (yes, I do use MSN.com from time to time), but I can almost
cope
> with that (although hardly, considering all the cosy integration talk
> about .NET)
> 
> What really rankles is using standards-compliance as an excuse.
> 
> I appeal to those involved in W3C work to distance themselves from
this
> perversion of standards to mask a plainly cynical corporate move, and
to
> those on this list who do work for Microsoft to convey deep
displeasure
> to those responsible.
> 
> For anyone who thought Microsoft's commitment to web standards was a
> pure and gentle thing, think again.  I think I can safely predict
we're
> nearly at the point where "standard" has lost its semantic value.
> 
> -- Edd
> 
> PS. This seems rather too resonant with some of the views I expressed
it
> my recent XML.com editorial, already highlighted in this forum by Len
> and Simon.
> 
> PPS. For a laugh, try:
>
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmsn.com%2F&charset=%28det
ec
> t+automatically%29&doctype=Inline