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Re: [xml-dev] 'The scary truth about Relational Model' links ( was :Caught napping! )

> You are probably looking for the paper "The Third Manifesto" by Darwen and
> Date (ACM 1995 I think). I've found a link to a postscript version on this
> page: http://www.palslib.com/Fundamentals/The_Relational_Model.html -- the
> manifesto is in the section called "Objects and the Relational Model".

**Unbelivable** link. Bob, thank you so much !!!

I also want to thank Michael Champion,  Dan Weinerb
and others, for providing pointers to books and urls.
Here is a brief list sofar, maybe it would be handy for
somebody else ( I'm gonna read it all now ;-) :

"old Ingres papers, probably authored or co-authored by
Michael Stonebraker.  Ingres had a language called
QUEL, and the Berkeley Ingres guys were pushing
QUEL as a competitor to SQL (then known, I think,
as SEQUEL) at the time"

""Data And Reality: Basic Assumptions in Data Processing Reconsidered"
by William Kent.  This is more about philosophical underpinning than
mathematical underpinning, and it shows just how deep some of the
problems are, including plenty of interesting issues that aren't
solved by the relational model and aren't going to be solved by any
alternative that is a model in the sense that the relational model is
a model.  Representing reality as data is hard."

"that the book has been re-released in your choice of e-book or
paperback at
vEOuCfOIoOudosH8C3KrenOuCma1m0Mnivkv1bvTlErn5 (or if that URL is a bit much,
go to www.1stbooks.com and search for the title "Data and Reality."

"Excerpts are at Kent's web site at
http://home.earthlink.net/~billkent/Doc/darxrp.htm. The book is great, and
its uncanny how much he had to say in 1978 to the data modeling issues of

"Look at http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/fp4a.htm (fortunately for our
self-images, Don Chamberlin and Peter Chen are almost as stupid as we are
<grin> ) and

"Date (who actually understands the math, and explains things
very well; his little THE DATABASE RELATIONAL
MODEL is the one book to buy if you have $10 and a couple
of hours to invest in understanding the relational model"