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Sorry to come to this discussion late. Somehow this thread didn't arrive
until this morning...
These are my meanings:
push- SAX: the parser pushes the data to the document handler; the handler
decides what data it is interested in
pull- kXML: the parser says where it is, the DH tells the parser which way
to go. In other words, the document handler has the parser pull only the
data it's interested in; branches get skipped. The document does not have to
be in-memory
batch (or ??)- DOM: A single method loads the document in-memory. The app
then navigates at its leisure
fully directed- (XQuery??)- the document handler builds instructions that
the parser uses to navigate and return data from the document.
Sounds like we may need to standardize terms here...
Jeff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:Isterin@ciber.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 10:34 AM
> To: 'Dare Obasanjo '; Jeff Lowery; 'xml-dev@lists.xml.org '
> Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
>
>
> I didn't say in necessarily meant in all memory
> representations, but rather
> that pull refers to the parsers like (DOM) that load the data
> and make it
> available to the program through a structure/interface, where
> push interface
> gives you the flexibility of even handlers (SAX) interface.
>
> Ilya
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dare Obasanjo
> To: Sterin, Ilya; ''Jeff Lowery' '; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> Sent: 11/25/01 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
>
> No. The pull model has *nothing* to do with an in-memory
> representation
> of the
> document. If you are confused about the pull model, a quick Google
> search[0]
> will explain it to you. In fact from where I sit, throwing
> some XML into
> the
> DOM and then manipulating the object model is _not_ parsing.
> Below is an
> example of pull-based parsing taken from fawcette.com
>
> XmlTextReader reader = new
> XmlTextReader(Server.MapPath("myfile.xml"));
> while (reader.Read()) {
> if (reader.NodeType == XmlNodeType.Element) {
> Response.Write("Found an Element!<br />");
> if (reader.HasAttributes()) {
> while (reader.MoveToNextAttribute()) {
> Response.Write(
> " Found an Attribute!<br />");
> }
> }
> }
> }
> // Make sure you close the stream to prevent file locking
> reader.Close();
>
> Note how it differs from push or event based processing in that you
> control
> the flow of processing instead of passively waiting for callbacks from
> the
> API.
>
> What Jeff claimed to be "batch parsing" which is a term I
> disagree with
> since
> no parsing is being done by the application developer but
> instead by the
> internal DOM APIs is using a loadXML style method to load a
> string into
> the
> DOM[2]. Or at least that's what it sounds like he is talking about.
>
> [0] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pull+model+xml+
> [1] http://www.fawcette.com/xmlmag/2001_11/magazine/departments/tips/
> [2]
> http://www.devguru.com/Technologies/xmldom/quickref/document_l
> oadXML.htm
> l
>
> --
> THINGS TO DO IF I BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD #118
> If I have equipment which performs an important function, it will not
> be activated by a lever that someone could trigger by accidentally
> falling
> on when fatally wounded.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sterin, Ilya" <Isterin@ciber.com>
> To: "'Dare Obasanjo '" <kpako@yahoo.com>; "''Jeff Lowery' '"
> <jlowery@scenicsoft.com>; <xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 7:21 AM
> Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
>
>
> > Correct, that's actually what I was refering too. The pull model is
> refered
> > to in memory parsing. The parser creates an in memory
> representation
> (data
> > structure) of the xml doc.
> >
> > Now, what I would like to know is the difference between
> that and what
> Jeff
> > mentioned as a batch processing, which also creates an **in memory**
> > representation of the doc? DOM parsers are pull parsers.
> >
> > When you guys say it loads directly, what do you mean. It
> doesn't use
> a
> > traversal to load into DOM.
> >
> > Ilya
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dare Obasanjo
> > To: Sterin, Ilya; 'Jeff Lowery'; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> > Sent: 11/25/01 3:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
> >
> > Errr, no.
> >
> > The pull model is that used by Microsoft .NET's XmlReader API[0] or
> > XPP[1]. In
> > the push model the API calls your methods as it sees parts
> of the XML
> > stream
> > while in the pull model you are in complete control of
> traversing the
> > XML
> > stream.
> >
> > One way of looking at it is that in the pull model, the big
> while loop
> > that
> > iterates through all the nodes in document is hidden from
> you while in
> > pull
> > model you're the one that writes it.
> >
> >
> > [0]
> >
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/cpguide/html/cpconread
> ingxmlwith
> > xmlrea
> > der.asp
> > [1] http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/soap/xpp/
> >
> > --
> > THINGS TO DO IF I BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD #112
> > I will not rely entirely upon "totally reliable" spells that can be
> > neutralized by relatively inconspicuous talismans.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sterin, Ilya" <Isterin@ciber.com>
> > To: "'Dare Obasanjo'" <kpako@yahoo.com>; "'Jeff Lowery'"
> > <jlowery@scenicsoft.com>; <xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:08 AM
> > Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Dare Obasanjo [mailto:kpako@yahoo.com]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:45 AM
> > > > To: Sterin, Ilya; 'Jeff Lowery'; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From where I sit they are very different. Batch parsing is
> > > > loading an entire stream or string into the DOM in one step
> > > > with a loadXML or similar method, then interacting with the
> > > > XML from the DOM. Pull parsing is at the other end of the
> > > > horizon where you iterate through every node in your document
> > > > one-by-one (text, element, PI, comment, etc) and perform
> > > > operations utilizing the ones you are interested in.
> > >
> > > You are actually refering to even driven parsing, which
> is the push
> > > model. The pull model loads the document in memory, so
> DOM parsers
> > are
> > > considered pull.
> > >
> > > Ilya
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > At least that's what I gathered from the descriptions I've seen.
> > YMMV.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > THINGS TO DO IF I BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD #112
> > > > I will not rely entirely upon "totally reliable" spells that
> > > > can be neutralized by relatively inconspicuous talismans.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Sterin, Ilya" <Isterin@ciber.com>
> > > > To: "'Jeff Lowery'" <jlowery@scenicsoft.com>;
> > <xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 1:35 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Jeff, quick question, how would batch parsing differ
> from pull,
> I
> > > > > would think it's the same concept? Maybe I'm just not
> > > > understanding
> > > > > this correctly?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ilya
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Jeff Lowery [mailto:jlowery@scenicsoft.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:45 PM
> > > > > > To: 'Sterin, Ilya'; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A third is what I would call (for want of a better name)
> "batch"
> > > > > > parsing, such as where a parser writes directly to a DOM.
> > > > I believe
> > > > > > there's a method in the W3C DOM to load a document directly;
> at
> > > > > > least I know that some implementation support that feature.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:Isterin@ciber.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:39 PM
> > > > > > > To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> > > > > > > Subject: [xml-dev] Push and Pull?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Push and Pull being the most popular ways of parsing XML,
> > > > > > can someone
> > > > > > > please list some alternatives, if any. Most documentation
> > > > > > says that
> > > > > > > push and pull are two ways of parsing, though it never
> > > > mentiones
> > > > > > > if there are other ways as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ilya
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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