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   RE: [xml-dev] What are Web Services for? (Was RE: [xml-dev] lots of WS r

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So explain to me how you think the current web service technologies
WSDL/SOAP/WS-*/etc can easily solve your problem in a feasible manner? 

This is an honest question. 

If you want to recapture your youth, cut off his allowance.  
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
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rights reserved.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Gertner [mailto:matthew.gertner@schemantix.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:29 AM
> To: 'Simon St.Laurent'; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> Subject: [xml-dev] What are Web Services for? (Was RE: 
> [xml-dev] lots of WS reading material)
> Thanks Simon, there's a lot of really interesting stuff 
> there. What I found most interesting was the article by Frank 
> Moss linked from the web log. I can't get too excited by the 
> REST vs. SOAP debate because there is such an overwhelming 
> precedent for ugly technical "standards" push by large 
> companies to win out over much cleaner and more sensible 
> alternatives. Paul's article is totally convincing, but at 
> the end of the day this stuff
> *will* be encapsulated in toolkits so it probably won't make 
> that much difference. It seems hideously illogical to take 
> the SOAP infrastructure and encapsulate it under URIs using 
> an additional layer (one of the comments to Paul's article 
> points to an example of this), but that's what will probably 
> end up happening.
> Anyway, Moss's article points to a much more fundamental 
> point: why bother with all the web services stuff in the 
> first place? If it's just a way to replace one kind of API 
> with another, then the effect is going to be incremental at 
> best. Certainly not enough to justify the amount of attention 
> that web services are getting. Having XML interfaces to web 
> pages is a vital first step, but in itself it doesn't 
> represent any quantum leap forward.
> I constantly find myself wanting to build little custom 
> applications that consume web data and do something useful 
> with it. For example, consider the process by which I decide 
> what movies to see. First I go to the local film listings 
> (www.dokina.cz) and check out what's playing in my favorite 
> Prague cinema. Since the names are in Czech, I then click on 
> a movie to see the description (and translation of the name 
> into English, which is the only part I care about). Then I go 
> to www.imdb.com and check out the user rating (from 1 to 10). 
> If it's an 8 or more, the movie's a winner, otherwise I might 
> want to investigate more. In this case, I click on the 
> external views and check out Roger Ebert's star rating (I 
> don't read the article so as not to spoil the suspense). 
> Since Ebert has his own bizarre agenda, I also check the 
> Tomato meter on Rotten Tomatoes. I then go back and repeat 
> the whole process for the next movie.
> What a pain. Wouldn't it be nice if I could quickly assemble 
> an app that consolidates all this information on one page for 
> me? Ideally it would actually alert me when there's a movie 
> playing that meets my minimum criteria, as well as offering 
> an aggregate view of all movies. It should be quickly 
> adaptable so that if I happen to be eating dinner in Prague 4 
> (way out in the boonies) I can generate a page for the nearby 
> Multikino Galaxy instead of the movie theatre in the center 
> that I usually go to.
> I suppose someone is going to point out that I can do all 
> this in Python or whatever if the appropriate XML interfaces 
> are available. But the success of the Web is based on the 
> fact that the barriers to entry are so low... even people who 
> barely figured out how to turn on their computer are soon 
> happily clicking through the hyperlinks. To me the 
> culmination of web services will be when I can put together a 
> quick app like this by pointing and clicking at the 
> appropriate areas of a set of web pages (implying that the 
> web pages of this type are generated from the underlying 
> XML... a big and important part of the web services idea 
> IMO). This idea applies equally well to B2C and B2B 
> applications with web interfaces.
> I feel like I must be stating the obvious here, but maybe 
> not... apparently people seem to think that web services are 
> about some sort of new RPC whose only advantage is that it 
> has a lot of marketing momentum behind it.
> Matt
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Simon St.Laurent [mailto:simonstl@simonstl.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:55 PM
> > To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> > Subject: [xml-dev] lots of WS reading material
> > 
> > 
> > There's a lot of new material on the Web Services discussion today.
> > 
> > Paul Prescod's "Google's Gaffe" is a good place to start: 
> > http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/04/24/google.html
> > 
> > Clay Shirky's "What Web Services Got Right... and Wrong" has
> > a different
> > take:
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/04/22/clay.html
> > 
> > Edd Dumbill's "Kicking Out the Cuckoo" suggests that Web 
> Services need 
> > to find a more appropriate home: 
> > http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/04/24/taglines.html
> > 
> > Marc Hedlund's "SOAP Wars" seems to continue the "it works" line of 
> > argument Dave Winer put forward here last week: 
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/1331
> > 
> > Dave Winer's written a "Rebuttal to REST": 
> > http://www.xmlrpc.com/rebuttalToRest
> > 
> > Finally, most of my recent Weblogs have been about related issues: 
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/weblogs/author/166
> > http://www.advogato.org/person/simonstl/
> > 
> > I'm sure there will be more to come.
> > 
> > --
> > Simon St.Laurent
> > Ring around the content, a pocket full of brackets
> > Errors, errors, all fall down!
> > http://simonstl.com
> > 
> > 
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