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   Re: [xml-dev] "In hot summer have I great rejoicing/When the tempests ki

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> >> >Comma delimited files provide *all*
> >> >the power of XML for relational and OO dumps with much fewer
> >> >inefficiencies and much less cruft (CDATA sections, entities, etc.)
> >>
> >> I disagree - the structure of csv might be a good match for
> >relational data
> >> *if* there was a convenient way of making links between files. Ok,
> >> hyperlinking (XHTML, XLink or whatever) isn't strictly part of
> >the XML spec,
> >> but if you stand back from the spec you see a whole load of layered
> >> technologies. If you stand back from comma delimited files all you see is
> >> smaller comma delimited files.
> >
> >Are you seriously saying people wouldn't know how to layer
> >structured linking on top of CSV?  I find this impossible to
> >credit.  I have seen the trivial solutions to this many times in CSV.
> That isn't what I said at all. My point was that there is already quite a
> degree of sophistication in the XML specs, which I am not aware of existing
> for CSVs.
> Structured linking is but one example, one which comes in handy for dealing
> with relations. I might have chosen something from the OO domain like
> inheritance, or encapsulation though I'm sure you've seen the trivial
> solutions to those as well. These things have been worked out to varying
> extents in XML, but where are the "..the standards gold, vair, purple,
> opposing..."?

TouchÚ.  Do you remember a recent post here from a wag definign something called Cardorch?  Supposedly it comes from the WWW Rebellion (W3R).  I nearly suffocated myself laughing at it because the author brilliantly sent up what the whole panolpy of XML specs could look like if one ditched the XML cruft.  I think there is a serious point behind that bit of levity: all the might and magic of XML for structured records processing can be achieved in any other format as long as you have an underlying data model and a set of naming conventions.  This includes linking, transforms, and even RDF-type things.

In the allegory you're trying to fill out, the massed Troubadour armies include the bearers of the following standards:

"XML has mindshare: let's use it to forge interop between tools, regardless of the mutation to XML itself"
"XML has mindshare and works well with the Web: let's use it forge peace between the Microsoft and the ABM distributed programming clique, regardless of the mutation to XML itself"
"XML is just text: layer everything else or leave it alone".

Derek Denny-Brown sued for peace in Provenše.  I say: bah!  To battle: no one profits through such an ugly peace.

Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
Track chair, XML/Web Services One Boston: http://www.xmlconference.com/
The many heads of XML modeling - http://adtmag.com/article.asp?id=6393
Will XML live up to its promise? - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think11.html


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