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   RE: [xml-dev] XUL != Mozilla

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I read your articles some time ago, thanks.
Gerald, wise up.  The linkage has to be 
not to the developer, but to the customer 
of the developer.  One has to sell to the 
guy who buys from the guy who buys from you.

1.  Java doesn't run everywhere.  Sun kaboshed that 
by keeping it closed to ownership but open to ideas, 
then suing Microsoft and forcing it off the distribution. 
Java's problems are still development tools and 

2.  Putting a rich client inside the web browser is a mistake. 
The problem is the web browser HTML framework.  It 
is not efficient for rich client construction.

3.  There are already multiple options for the 
scripting language.  That is not a XUL differentiator.
What is needed is a framework that enables the 
developer to actually extend an XML language by 
exposing the properties of classes.  That is a 
XAML differentiator.  How does XUL do that?

4.  UI designers come and go, but the UI designer 
choice for a production shop has to be shared and 
be production worthy.   This is a framework quality, 
not a quality of the XML application language.

5.  Everyone builds on proven technologies.  We 
probably have different opinions about which are 
standard.  XUL is not a standard.  Neither is XAML. 
ISMID is a standard but it is friendless.  ISMID 
existed before XUL.  What is your complaint? 

A webmaster made that same remark about 
the cold war being over when she first showed 
me the web.  A hot war was coming and every problem 
of security with military web sites that she was 
glossing over came to be.    The design she was 
rejecting in favor of HTML is precisely the design 
you are selling as XUL and MS as XAML.  As the book 
says, "Hope is not a strategy."

Spy Vs Spy is strip from MAD magazine.  Can you 
rise above bashing and learn to compete?  Can 
you do it and still maintain the openness of 
your project?  In short, will you win if you 
both cause your customer to inherit your enemies 
while simultaneously working in the open where 
they can both see you coming and going and 
move quickly to intercept you?

The moral high ground is hard to hold if you 
have any possessions or ambitions that you 
prize above the ground itself.  Dammed hard.


From: Gerald Bauer [mailto:luxorxul@yahoo.ca]

> Why does anyone need XUL?
> Quick!  Fat client vs thin client.

 Len, please grow up. XUL doesn't replace HTML but
instead builds on it. I guess you somehow missed the
whole XUL discussion here on xml-dev.

  If you're truly interested in what XUL has to offer
why not check out my "Rich Clients, Rich Browsers,
Rich Portals" lecture series online @

  Just in case it's too much effort let me highlight
two slides:

Five Freedoms - Xul Charter

* Freedom to Choose Your Runtime - Java, Mono, C/C++
* Freedom to Choose Your UI Designer 
* Freedom to Choose Your UI Toolkit - Swing, SWT,
Gtk#, Qt
* Freedom to Choose Your Scripting Language - Python,
Perl, Tcl
* Freedom to Choose Your Programming Language - Java,
C#, Shark
XUL Benefits

* Powerful widget markup (XML, Babe)
* Built on proven standards (Reuse, Reuse, Reuse)
* Platform portability (Runs Anywhere)
* Splits presentation and application logic (Beyond
Hairballs and Spaghetti Code)
* Easy customization, localization, or branding (Your
Way or the Highway)

> Can you do it without Spy Vs Spy?

  Len, I'm getting sick of your Spy vs. Spy cliche. If
you haven't realized it yet the cold war is over for
more than a decade now. Why not use something more
up-to-date to show that you aren't stuck in the past.

  - Gerald

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