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   RE: [xml-dev] [Fwd: Potential Gap (WAS Re: [owl-s] communication between

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bullard, Claude L (Len) [mailto:len.bullard@intergraph.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:46 AM
> To: 'Rick Marshall'; Chiusano Joseph
> Cc: 'Thomas B. Passin'; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> Subject: RE: [xml-dev] [Fwd: Potential Gap (WAS Re: [owl-s] 
> communication between web services)]
> As I scroll through the latest round of Web services vs REST 
> debates, it's like watching the American presidential 
> election.  

Last night I had the unique opportunity to spend an hour and 15 minutes
in person with Tim Russert, listening to him speak to an audience
comprised of parishoners of his church (I play piano at Sunday 5:30pm
mass there). It was amazing to hear his more candid opinions of the
election, in ways that he cannot express while on TV (he even did
impressions of the candidates!).

In any event, Jim Webber has an excellent piece on the *other*
interesting topic of the day[1], Web Services vs REST. Hope you find it

Kind Regards,
Joe Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World

[1] http://www.webservices.org/index.php/ws/content/view/full/39565

> I read articles which attempt to characterize the 
> complexity of web services with page counts of the specs, but 
> they don't explain how the alternatives will support the 
> complexities of large scale enterprise applications. 
> Or they say, 'we don't do those so we don't care' which is 
> fine but worthless as critique.  
> In other words, no one seems to deal with the issues, they 
> are just banging away at the reputation of their opposition 
> and no matter how one dresses that up, it is just demogoguery 
> intended to confuse the marketplace.  
> A feedback loop for learning requires one to be willing to learn. 
> That means measurements of the problem, not measurements of 
> the containers. 
> So far, I haven't seen much about the semantic web services 
> that I can't do with code except reuse the code blindly.  So 
> I am a bit sceptical of the immediate utility, but I've been 
> wrong before about things like that.  On the other hand, with 
> regards to web services, from where I sit, there are 
> immediate needs to apply this technology and I am not 
> concerned that major vendors are pulling away into small 
> teams to get the work done faster.  I am very concerned that 
> policy for its application (eg, privacy guidelines, retention 
> guidelines, access guidelines, and so on) are not being 
> created particularly in the U.S.A. where the implementations 
> will penetrate the systems fast 
> once we are past the upcoming election.   In a millieu in which it 
> has become acceptable to deny facts, fudge measurements, and 
> otherwise just bang on the opposition without regard to the 
> reality of the situation on the ground, I am pessimistic 
> about how well this conflation of technical politics and 
> governance will work out in 
> the near term.   To use a feedback loop, one has to be willing 
> to learn not just redirect fire on the same target.
> len
> From: Rick Marshall [mailto:rjm@zenucom.com]
> all the ws-* stuff and all the owl stuff will need similar 
> feedback loops for learning. they will need to cope with 
> generalities and specifics. they will need access to computer 
> equivalents of google and they will need a way to evaluate 
> the results.


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