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   Re: [xml-dev] Web Services/SOA (was RE: [xml-dev] XML 2004 weblog items?

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I almost laughed out aload reading your message....

> XML removes the necessity of defining YACC grammars
> and writing parsers for every random data
> format need.

only funny because I remember YACC from way back. No
doubt it still exists. I remember that was one
heck of a frustrating program.

and yet... some of these new tools have exactly the
same frustration level in xml even now. I don't know
why I think that, but it seems that way to me. Especially
in Linux.

You have some interesting points to make in any


Quoting Michael Champion <michaelc.champion@gmail.com>:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:57:24 -0600, Bullard, Claude L (Len)
> <len.bullard@intergraph.com> wrote:
> >
> > Every few years, we toss out the old terms and attempt
> > to reapply the technologies that didn't quite make it
> > in the last cycle.
> That's The Way It's Supposed To Be, I think.  Code gets refactored --
> toss out the stuff that really didn't work, try the technologies that
> didn't quite make it again after a couple of iterations of Moore's
> Law.  Political ideas get co-opted (Barry Goldwater's speeches weren't
> much different than Kerry's flag-waving one when he accepted the
> nomination, Lyndon Johnson sounds like a Bush Republican in
> retrospect).
> You HAVE to change the names or people will expect backwards
> compatibility --  bad ideas have to die, and sometimes good names are
> part of the collateral damage.
> Peter Hunsberger wrote:
> > Sure, some hand waving as they invoke the magic term "SOA"
> > and next thing you know your boss expects transparent data
> > exchange with 500 new business partners to be up and running in a month...
> There's no dispute that the the hype surrounding web services / SOA
> has done a disservice.  I think it's just part of our collective job
> description to learn to separate out the hype from the reality and to
> try to persuade those around us of what the reality is. It takes
> awhile to get enough credibility to tell the Pointy-Haired Boss that
> the hypemeisters are full of it and NOBODY is getting real-world
> transparent data exchange with SOA, WS-* ... or REST and the Semantic
> Web for that matter.  Data exchange requires hard work, and at best
> technology automates the grunt work, e.g. as XML removes the necessity
> of defining YACC grammars and writing parsers for every random data
> format need.  Maybe semantic technologies will automate the process of
> building or configuring transformers between diverse data formats, but
> they will create a new type of grunt work - building ontologies that
> define the mappings that automated transformation engines can exploit.
> What's important is to keep an eye on the central ideas that have
> persisted across Structured Programming, Object Orientation,
> Distributed Objects, and now Service Orientation.  Loose coupling and
> data hiding are certainly two of these central ideas.  Some ideas
> sound good but don't work out, e.g. "location transparency" in the
> distributed object world.    Some ideas that seem trivial have the
> immense advantage of  being massively scalable (e.g. HTTP), and some
> ideas that probably will never scale could turn out to be just the
> ticket for limited domains (e.g. the semantic web).  The thing we can
> do is to exploit the ideas that actually work, irrespective of whether
> they are fashionable or not; and to ignore those that don't work,
> irrespective of whether they are tangled up in standards or products
> with others  that do work.
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