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   RE: [xml-dev] The XML Backlash

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Yep. That was me.  The question is not 
from where, but what scale is the backlash this time 
and will the wave effect take over? 

I'll skip over the possible third of the complaints 
coming from people who want position, failed to 
get it, they ignored XML, then found themselves 
isolated and now are fighting XML to eliminate their 
social competitors who did win with it.  Sad but life 
among the mammals...


The closer one gets to real time, the more performance 
is an issue.  XML isn't a sharp performer in real time.

Is binary the compromise until Moore's Law relieves the front line?  


The alternative syntaxes that accompany new XML application languages 
are another compromise.  Subsets are a natural feature and to be expected.  
How does a syntax based solution justify alternative syntaxes?

Trying to program in XML:

Sowa claims the issue is that 
people attempt to solve semantic problems with syntax 
patches.  That's an interesting topic because it is 
at the heart of other permathreads.  

Bad XML designs:

I do wonder if some of these combined 
with lack of compression (Good post, Steve deR) are 
driving a fair bit of the backlash.  Given the loose 
coupling meme, i.e., expecting any consumer to consume 
badly designed XML, some work is needed here.

Inappropriate data model:

Yes, XML is not a relational database.  So?  It isn't 
a fish either.

What does a backlash look like?

In a visualization, it looks like a one color graph 
of points where small isolates begin to change color, 
then a few of these find pathways to each other, and 
at some point, a large splotch appears.  Inside that 
splotch, you'll find the applications with similar 
problems with the syntax and similar or different 
compromises.   What keeps the whole graph from turning 
is that for some applications (eg middleware, large 
lazy transactions, etc.) XML is the right solution 
and holds its natural niche well.

I suspect the answer is some combination of alternative 
mappable syntaxes and binaries.  Not new news.  We  
live with 'other bits on the wire' and mostly XML in  
cold storage next to the tables and in the tables.


From: Tim.Bray@Sun.COM [mailto:Tim.Bray@Sun.COM]On Behalf Of Tim Bray

On Dec 3, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote:

> Are we at the emergence point of an XML backlash?

Heh, the XML backlash started even before XML was finished.  As I 
recall, you were one of the early ringleaders.  Obviously, XML clogs up 
networks and isn't nearly as good as decades-old LISP proposals.  Throw 
the damn thing out I say, and start again.  -Tim


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