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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amelia A Lewis [mailto:amyzing@talsever.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 16:07
> To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Non-infoset
>
>
> On 2005-04-10 15:25:51 -0400 Alessandro Triglia <sandro@mclink.it>
> wrote:
> > The non-infoset includes such things as:
> >
> > - the use of general entities;
>
> Quite significant, given that there's no replacement for this
> (particularly inside attribute content).
>
> > - the nature and amount of whitespace inside tags;
>
> What?
[40] STag ::= '<' Name (S Attribute)* S? '>'
[42] ETag ::= '</' Name S? '>'
[44] EmptyElemTag ::= '<' Name (S Attribute)* S? '/>'
[3] S ::= (#x20 | #x9 | #xD | #xA)+
"nature and amount of whitespace inside tags" means: What do you choose as "S" in productions 40, 42, and 44? (two spaces?, one tab?, one tab and one space? one CR?, and so on).
>
> <p>This sentence contains <em>emphasized</em> text.</p>
>
> Has important characteristics in the whitespace.
I said "inside" tags, not "between" tags.
>
> Can fast infoset do mixed content?
As well as the XML Infoset can. Of course, it can.
>
> > - the inclusion of a DTD;
>
> Of a piece with the lack of support for entities.
>
> > .. and other things, including those listed in Appendix D of the
> > Infoset
> > recommendation.
>
> Comments? Processing instructions?
Comments and processing instructions are part of the XML Infoset.
See http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset/#infoitem.pi
and
http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset/#infoitem.comment
>
> > However, I would like to ask the following question. How many
> > **producers**
> > of XML documents really care about the non-infoset part of the XML
> > document
> > that they are **producing**?
>
> Sufficiently many that DTD won't die, since it's the only way to
> define and use general entities.
I didn't say that DTDs will die. I didn't say that all producers of XML don't care about the DTD. I have asked how many do.
>
> > Or equivalently: How many **producers** of XML would be happy to
> > live in a
> > world in which the non-infoset part was put outside their control?
>
> A subset of the ones I know of; all entirely data-oriented.
So? If they are *many* enough, then the infoset *is* important. This is my point.
> Even
> those tend to be frustrated by the lack of a replacement for the
> general entity mechanism (although xinclude can solve some of those
> problems, albeit sometimes with redefinition of schemas).
>
> > How many producers need the ability
> > to use general entities? How many producers need the ability to
> > include a
> > DTD in the XML they are creating?
>
> It continually surprises me how many people think that the entity
> mechanism can be dispensed with,
Who said I think that the entity mechanism can be dispensed with? I have asked how many people don't need it.
> given that there is no replacement
> for it, and a substantial number of customers (not particular jobs,
> but customers overall) need it.
>
> > If the answer to these questions was that not many XML producers
> > really care
> > about the non-infoset, one could conclude that the XML
> infoset **is**
> > important, more so than some believe, whether or not people
> actually
> > use the
> > term "infoset" in their work.
>
> And if it's that many *do* care about whitespace, and entities, and
> DTDs? Or PIs and comments?
Your mention of whitespace, PIs, and comments is pointless, because these things are in the infoset.
Entities are in the non-infoset. I have asked how many creators of XML documents need them. If they are a good number, then the infoset is important.
Alessandro
>
> Amy!
> --
> Amelia A. Lewis amyzing {at} talsever.com
> Money can't buy happiness, but poverty can't buy *anything*.
>
>
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