RE: [xml-dev] Abuse of this list

["Len Bullard" <cbullard@hiwaay.net>]

Early pioneers talked about this a lot.  The web pushed forward without it
because it was 'too hard'.

1.  The drive for XML is not separation of content and format.  That is a
means to achieve repurposing, not a goal in and of itself.

2.  The whole idea of open hyperlinking is to encourage hyperlinking.  On
the other hand, taking a source and re-marking it with hyperlinks to point
to answers inside a non-author selected resource domain is not the same as
pointing to the article.  It is pointing from within it.  It adds controls
and intentions.  That if no other reason is one reason to prefer a binary
weak though it is and no it stops no one savvy enough to link inside it
anyway (easily done).  

3.  On the other hand, as Google and other search engines prove, link
databases are not invasive.  They are pervasive.   I've no objection to
Google providing maps.  I've big objections to photos of my house.  If they
continue with their current push, then it is time to take lots of aerial
photos of those gated neighborhoods in Silly Valley and publish them.  It's
just the same view anyone with a private airplane and very good telephoto
lens would get.  There is big money to be made being paparazzi.  So... whee!

Information reuse is a harder topic than figuring out how to markup a
document for the most purposes (the way to do that is to add no markup at
all).

1.  Site restrict.  Make it the policy of OASIS that no contributions to its
lists are to be repurposed past what current legal frameworks allow for fair
use.  That is murky enough.   Otherwise expect more lists and more parts of
the web to go-offweb into private networks just as the social networks have
become gated communities.

2. Local restrictions.  A standard policy on each contribution as you say
similar to the bots.txt messages.

3.  Opt-in/opt-out:  make it the case the owner of note of a location
specified by a geocode of sufficient granularity has the ability to restrict
the image indexed by any search engine.  Send them one, choose one from a
list, restrict to 3D model only.  (The reason to use photos is cheap
textures on a wireframe.  OTW, the 3D models from companies such as Planet 9
do the jobs they say they want to do with StreetLevel views without the peep
shows.

There are other means.  I don't intend to debate that here, but if not here
then where and when?

One hopes for communion over dominion but one doesn't always get that.

len


From: Ian Graham [mailto:ian.graham@utoronto.ca] 

Do any mailing lists have written charters to restrict types of reuse 
for contributed content?  I have never seen anything like that, nor have 
I seen sig lines referencing individual contributor's copyright 
policies. Either of those might,  at a minimum might, make someone think 
twice about reusing material....

I agree entirely with Len's comments, but as there is currently nothing 
to proscribe such reuse (and indeed the general tendency to encourage 
it), perhaps a written, gentle reminder to the contrary would help??

Ian

Len Bullard wrote:
> That's an interesting question.  Can they abuse the list or just the
> authors?  I've had posts from XML-Dev being repurposed at Stylus and
online
> magazines for some time now.  There have been instances of having whole
> concepts lifted, phrases used as original when they are cribbed and so on.
> I'd more or less accepted it because chasing a copyright violator is the
> author's financial burden to bear and who can afford that?  For the most
> part, I don't care enough.
>
> Today Google's SpyTrux can prowl the streets and snap images of your 13
year
> old daughter playing on the Slip and Slide in your front yard and publish
> that with your street address and directions to your house.  We are told
> this is legal because it isn't different from the view of any person
driving
> by your house.  That the image will be indexed into the world's most
> accessible search engine for anyone to review isn't noticed by the paid
> legal pundits for Google.  They remove the high publicity images (images
of
> protestors at abortion clinics), but your kids are still up there.
>
> I warned you.  Unless local filtering is a part of the web, unless
> permissions for view AND review are part of its infrastructure, it's abuse
> is not only inevitable but legion.
>
> No one cared.  Everyone was making money.  We wanted it to be as 'easy and
> simple' as it could be for the programmer's so we didn't do any of the
hard
> work the pioneers in the hypertext field said was required to field a
> socially responsible web.  Instead, we have the WWW.  We forged our own
> chains.
>
> So suck it up.  The damage is done.  Undoing it will require legislation
and
> you are going to protest that more than what Stylus has done, but
> unfortunately, few care enough to act until the knock is on their own
door.
>
> len
>
>
> From: Richard Tobin [mailto:richard@inf.ed.ac.uk] 
>
> I see that a company called Stylus Studio is republishing xml-dev in
> the form of a blog.  Fair enough.  But they are making selected words
> from postings into links to their products.  So the word "downloaded"
> in my announcement of LTXML2 is a link to downloading their product;
> the word "manual" is a link to their manuals; the word "bugs" is a
> link to their criticism of a competing product.
>
> Modifying other people's articles in this way seems to me dishonest,
> if not an outright copyright violation.
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Ian Graham   
H: 416.769.2422 / W: 416.513.5656 / E: <ian . graham AT utoronto . ca>
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