RE: [xml-dev] Re: Ten Years Later - XML 1.0 Fifth Edition?

[Stephen Beller <sbeller@nhds.com>]

Excellent question, Noah.

This link shows a way to represent your XML organization chart segment in a
spreadsheet containing recursive hierarchies --
http://nhds.com/org_chart_xml2ss.jpg. The first eight (header) rows in this
example represent the hierarchies. In each header cell, the parent name is
in brackets and the current element/attribute name is beneath it. I've
changed the names for greater clarity. Hierarchically, each header row
consists of the children of the row immediately above it. For example, cells
C3 and C4 indicate that employee level 01 (Employee01 - tom) manages an
employee at level 02 (Employee02 - mary), who, in turn, manages an employee
at level 03 (Employee03 - sue) as indicated in cells E5 and E6. 

All the data/values are in the ninth row and additional employees can be
added to the appropriate cells in rows 10+.

In terms of handling documents in a spreadsheet, such as their resumes,
there are at least two methods that can be used. One is what you mentioned,
i.e., storing parts or all of the text in a cell (a cell can store over
32,000 characters, which is equivalent to about 10 pages of text). Another
method is to store a hyperlink to the resume document in a cell, which is
what I demonstrate in the example above.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:49 PM
To: Stephen-NHDS
Cc: Xml-Dev Listserv
Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Re: Ten Years Later - XML 1.0 Fifth Edition?

SBeller writes:

> An elegant solution for many situations is available if we shift 
> from a string-based language to "positional-based" method. This 
> solution involves transforming XML documents into grid-based files 
> (such as spreadsheets), in which (a) the cells of each column are 
> populated with the element or attribute values sharing the same XML 
> name, (b) the columns are arranged in a manner that maintains 
> hierarchies, and (b) the values in each cell in a row are associated.

I'm a bit confused about this proposal.  One of XML's most valuable 
features is its ability to unify documents and data in the same framework. 
 I can see how to translate a list of potential hires into a spreadsheet, 
as you suggest.  How would I handle the XML documents that are, for 
example, their resumés?  The use of XML for structured documents is at 
least as important as for data;  indeed it's the combination that I think 
makes XML uniquely interesting.  I've never seen a spreadsheet that could 
do much more with documents than either extracting bits out of them, or 
maybe storing the text as blobs in cells.  How would a collection of 
resumes look in this form, presuming that the resumes had variable 
structure and lots of text? 

Certainly, spreadsheets are a also stretch for recursive hierarchies, even 
of data, and likewise I'm not sure how you represent the content 
corresponding to <xsd:choice>.  If I had an XML organization chart for my 
company, with a format like:

<manager name="bob">
  <employee name="mary"/>
  <manager name="sue">
    <employee name="tom"/>
  </manager>
</manager>

how would that map to your spreadsheet?  (note that managers have mixes 
employees and managers reporting to them at each level.)  Thank you.

Noah


--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn 
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------








Stephen-NHDS <sbeller@nhds.com>
02/23/2008 11:40 AM
 
        To:     Xml-Dev Listserv <xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
        cc:     (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
        Subject:        [xml-dev] Re: Ten Years Later - XML 1.0 Fifth 
Edition?


It seems to me that the very nature of the text-based markup method is
causing this Unicode incompatibility problem. An elegant solution for many
situations is available if we shift from a string-based language to
"positional-based" method. This solution involves transforming XML 
documents
into grid-based files (such as spreadsheets), in which (a) the cells of 
each
column are populated with the element or attribute values sharing the same
XML name, (b) the columns are arranged in a manner that maintains
hierarchies, and (b) the values in each cell in a row are associated.

The resulting grid could then be queried easily and its contents formatted
based on their cellular positions. Any Unicode characters can be used in 
the
names and values, e.g., Excel can accommodate all Unicode 5.0 characters 
via
the code2000 font, as well as using a character's code decimal value in 
its
macros. And the grid could be saved as a delimited text file, without the
overhead of tags and tag-based parsing.

I realize this paradigm shift isn't easy for many to comprehend, but it 
can
be done and is worth exploration, imo.

Steve



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