Re: [xml-dev] RE: XML is Like a Box of Chocolates

[cbullard@hiwaay.net]

And not in a world full of rtf controls, pngs, bmps, tiffs, and so on.

Panglossian.

len

Quoting David Lee <dlee@calldei.com>:

> So you've tossed plain text and multimedia (audio, video etc) as useful?
>
>
> Sent from my iPad (excuse the terseness)
> David A Lee
> dlee@calldei.com<mailto:dlee@calldei.com>
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "Kurt Cagle"  
> <kurt.cagle@gmail.com<mailto:kurt.cagle@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> I like Jenni Tennisons notion that we are moving to an  
> infrastructure in which all data moves over one of four formats:  
> html (rich text), xml (documents), json (data structures) and rdf  
> (assertions), with the caveat that rdf's preferred format is turtle  
> notation. It's an intriguing thought.
>
> Kurt Cagle
>
> On Mar 5, 2012 5:52 PM, "Cox, Bruce"  
> <Bruce.Cox@uspto.gov<mailto:Bruce.Cox@uspto.gov>> wrote:
> Roger L. Costello, your tombstone will be labeled "The Great  
> Provocateur" and carved in the shape of a Valrhona Truffle.  How  
> dare you refer to the contents of a box of chocolate as "meaningless!"
>
> Of course, the organization and processing of content is HIGHLY  
> MEANINGFUL, even if only to the businesses that invest in its XML  
> representation.  Do you suppose that the idea of organization is  
> somehow a fiction used to seduce those with money to give it to  
> those who play with pointy brackets?  Granted, I've seen similar  
> tactics used to milk DARPA funding, but we aren't all so mercenary.
>
> Kidding aside (yes, that was actually intended to be a joke, so  
> please don't anyone take it seriously), I think you've swung the  
> pendulum too far to the abstract with this analogy, Roger.  If there  
> is meaning in XML, it's in the content, not the syntax.  But if  
> there is a right way to process the content, that process is guided  
> by the markup.  The markup lubricates that special part of the  
> business process that can be reduced to symbol processing.  If there  
> is one paramount constraint on that processing, it is that it must  
> not violate the meaning invested in the content by the content  
> owners.  Believe me, that's a trick worth performing, and paying for.
>
> However, I think your analogy is worth developing.  It will  
> certainly hold the attention of your readers.  And consider a role  
> for wrapping paper.
>
> Somewhat off topic: Which brings to mind a program on Science  
> channel (How it's Done?  Mega factories?) that showed a major UPS  
> sorting center.  Bar codes were used for most packages to move them  
> from the flight they arrived on to the loading dock of the flight or  
> truck they were leaving on.  But not all.  Very large or small  
> packages got sorted using other methods, usually requiring manual  
> intervention to a greater or lesser degree.  XML, like bar codes,  
> will cover a wide range of processing, but not all cases.
>
> Bruce B Cox
> OCIO/AED/Software Architecture and Engineering Division
> 571-272-9004<tel:571-272-9004>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Costello, Roger L.  
> [mailto:costello@mitre.org<mailto:costello@mitre.org>]
> Sent: 2012 March 4, Sunday 09:06
> To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org<mailto:xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
> Subject: XML is Like a Box of Chocolates
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> XML is like a box of chocolates.
>
> Here's how:
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Organize the Chocolates that I Received
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Recently I received some chocolates:
>
> -  Truffles, I put them in a box and wrote on the outside of the box  
> "Spherical"
> -  M&Ms, I put them in another box and wrote on the outside of that  
> box, "Shiny"
> -  Chocolate covered peanuts, I received a lot so I divided them  
> into two boxes and wrote on the outside of each box, "Nutty"
>
> I stacked the boxes like so: Spherical on top of Shiny on top of the  
> two Nutty.
>
> Then I took this stack and put them all inside a box and wrote on  
> the outside of that box, "Chocolates"
>
> Oh, I also received a chocolate bar which I hooked on top of the  
> "Chocolates" box.
>
> See how I organized the chocolates?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> What's the Meaning of that Organization of Chocolates?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I hooked the chocolate bar on top of the "Chocolates" box. Is there  
> some special significance to that?
>
> I placed the two "Nutty" boxes on the bottom of the stack. Is there  
> some special significance to that?
>
> What's the meaning of this organization?
>
> Obviously it has no meaning. It is simply the way I organized my  
> chocolates. To attach meaning to this organization is assigning  
> meaning where none exists.
>
> XML is like this organization of chocolates. An XML document is just  
> a collection of data where each item of data has been boxed  
> (enclosed in start-tag, end-tag pairs) or hooked onto a box  
> (attribute). There is no meaning to the organization.
>
> ----------------------------
> Eating the Chocolates
> ----------------------------
>
> Today I ate a truffle. When I eat a truffle I like to take my time  
> and enjoy it, so I bite off just a tiny piece, let it sit in my  
> mouth until it melts, and then swallow it; then repeat with the next  
> tiny bite.
>
> My brother, on the other hand, pops the entire truffle into his  
> mouth, chews on it for a few seconds, and swallows it.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> What's the Right Way to Eat Chocolates?
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> I eat chocolates in a different way than my brother. Am I right and  
> he's wrong?
>
> Obviously not. We are each entitled to eat chocolates however we desire.
>
> I should mention that I eat brussel sprouts differently than I eat  
> chocolates. For brussel sprouts I pop one into my mouth, quickly  
> chew, and swallow. So if I were doing a blind taste test of various  
> foods, it would be hard for me to know how to eat each food.
>
> I need to know "what" I am eating to know "how" to eat it.
>
> Analogously, there is no right way to process XML.  To each his own.  
> What is important, however, is to know "what" the data is.
>
> -------------------------------
> Giving Gifts of Chocolate
> -------------------------------
>
> I think chocolates are a great gift. So last Christmas I gave a box  
> of chocolates to each of my siblings.
>
> Earlier I described an organization of chocolates. I used that as a  
> template. For each sibling I made a box of chocolates following that  
> template. That is, to be placed within each "Chocolates" box are:
>
> -  1 box containing truffles
> -  1 box containing M&Ms
> -  2 boxes containing chocolate covered peanuts.
>
> And hooked onto the "Chocolates" box is a chocolate bar.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> What's the Meaning of this Template?
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Does the template give meaning to the gift boxes?
>
> Obviously not. The template simply shows "how to" organize the boxes  
> (or, once accomplished, how each box is organized).
>
> Likewise, XML Schema (and Relax NG and DTD) just show "how to"  
> organize data in XML documents. Schemas have no meaning.
>
> ---------
> Recap
> ---------
>
> An XML document is just an organization of data. Organization has no  
> meaning. Be careful that you don't implicitly assign meaning where  
> none exists. For example, XML attributes are not "meta-data" and  
> they have no "scope". Analogously, it would be foolhardy to claim  
> that because the chocolate bar is hooked onto the "Chocolates" box  
> it is somehow "meta-chocolate" and it "scopes" all the chocolates  
> inside the box.
>
> XML documents can be processed any way you want. There is no right  
> way. Don't prescribe "how" to process data. However, do describe  
> "what" the data is. But don't depend on the element or attribute  
> names to describe "what" the data is. I labeled the box containing  
> the M&Ms "Shiny", that hardly tells "what" is inside the box.  
> Describe "what" the data is using a data specification and possibly  
> an ontology.
>
> XML Schema (and Relax NG and DTD) are just templates that describe  
> how to organize XML documents. Schemas have no meaning.
>
> -------------------------
> Related Discussions
> -------------------------
>
> The Edge of Chaos: Where Syntax Ends and Interpretation Begins  
> (http://www.xfront.com/The-edge-of-chaos-where-syntax-ends-and-interpretation-begins.pdf)
>
> The XML Literalist (http://www.stylusstudio.com/xmldev/201103/post90060.html)
>
> Comments?
>
> /Roger
>