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Re: [xml-dev] parsing markup with Perl

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Shlomi Fish <shlomif@shlomifish.org> wrote:
> Hi Ihe,

Hello Again,

> I guess I agree that it's a false dichotomy, but please don't attribute it to
> Mr. Poe, because I was quoting and possibly paraphrasing on what he said from
> memory. In any case, the Freecell Solver core source code alone
> ( http://fc-solve.shlomifish.org/ - my own project ) now contains source code
> and markup in C, Perl 5, GNU make, Python, Ruby, CMake, AsciiDoc, Bash, and
> possibly other languages and I noticed that some other open source projects also
> contain quite a bit of mishmash of stuff (don't know how the situation is with
> proprietary software). So while not a dichotomy, the situation is still
> certainly possible and may badly affect the accessibility and approachability
> of contributing for the project.

Well thats a different kettle of fish because there you have people
contributing in multiple general purpose languages so I can agree with
you there.

>> Domain specific language vs Domain specific language masquerading as a
>> possibly non-(standard|compatible|interoperable|performant|optimized)
>> domain specific library in a general purpose language.
>> Choose as your poison the one that is less likely to make you sick/die.
> Not sure I understand, but I think you mean something like that if working in
> PHP or Perl (for example) you should not parse HTML and XML directly by using
> one-off regular expressions, but rather use a normal and sane parser. (To give
> an example for what you mean and not keep it abstract). I can 100% agree with
> it, but it is may be sometimes better to reinvent small wheels (in a good way)
> than to drag an entire framework (or even module or library) for that.

It depends on the domain of the project subject matter.

For example at what point does the amount of math you are doing mean
you should be using R/Matlab/Mathematica or Octave. Perhaps if you are
a Python Developer and/or know/believe in numpy/scipy the answer may
well be never.

> Moreover, sometimes writing "ugly"/complicated/inelegant code with some
> so-called anti-patterns can go a long way in making sure your code is kept
> simple (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle ). This is instead of
> using an abstraction that tries to produce the most elegant code any time, and
> ends up being hard to learn, use and read (there's some previous discussion on
> it in this thread of Sayeret Lambda (an Israeli group of programming languages'
> enthusiasts)

People who code in Python but can't grok List Comprehensions use the
exact same argument.

>> >
>> > Perfect is often the
>> > enemy of good.
>> >
>> Very true but often used as an excuse to unnecessarily implement crap.
> That's right. Someone I know used to have "Good is the enemy of great." as his
> signature. It shouldn't be taken as gospel, and quotes (like the Rules of
> Acquisition) can only be considered as guidelines, and I have my share of two
> apparently conflicting quotes, and quotes that I know which are amusing, but
> that I can no longer agree with (including ironically some quotes of my own.).
> I also read somewhere that many "famous" quotes and aphorisms are used to feign
> authority, and so should be avoided as much as possible.

Well I don't think I introduced any in our conversation :).

But a more economical way of expressing the DSL vs DSL masquerading as
library point would have been to state Greenspun's Tenth Rule (
applied to the DSL being aped rather than Lisp).

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