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Re: [xml-dev] The Goals of XML at 25, and the one thing that XML now needs

First we ought to recognize that if there is a war to be fought there never should have been one in the first place. 
Formats can co-exist and complement each other - look to the example of RDF a format that leverages the things it needs from XML (types and namespaces) while doing the job it was designed for better than XML. 

Secondly this war is not  being waged on technical grounds because the notion that one should attempt any non-trivial system development effort built on a format that does not have a subtyping capability is risible. 
JSON folks waged a very effective PR campaign, XML folks sat back and barely answered and the appeal of the loudest voices held sway. You can't stem or reverse that tide with arguments rooted in technical merit.

Let's take a realistic example -  an air traffic control data exchange. 
There is a common core concept of an Airport but it could be a local or international, public or private and then there would be variations on how different countries model one.

IOW there is a core Airport that has been modelled with subtypes of LocalAirport, USAirport, NZAirport, PublicAirport, PrivateAirport. 

Somebody comes along and wants to remodel this in JSON and the reason when you've cut through all the is that bullshit JSON has eaten XML's lunch and if you disagree that it would be bullshit let's just agree that it's not going to be because you can do the subtyping in the data model you originally designed in JSON. 

So my attitude is let them make that argument and if they win the contract let them go build the system. 


On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 8:21 AM Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> wrote:


On Mon, 19 Jul. 2021, 08:44 Arjun Ray, <arayq2@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 20:52:27 +0200, Marcus Reichardt wrote:

| I guess the fixation on JSON by the XML community is because JSON ate
| XML's lunch in lucrative enterprise integration, so to speak.

Bingo.

Maybe JSON shows that ultimately XML's problem in that application was that XML was actually TOO simple!  It needed more "complexity" :rules to support recognition of numbers, boolean, symbols in the syntax.

For example, say we added to XML simple typing by delimiters like this

 <a b="xyz"   c=123 d=false  e=R23456 >...

where b is a string, c is a number, d is boolean and e is a symbol.

So which is actually simpler: implementing/understanding current XML with an XML schema, or this extended XML syntax which is trivial and conventional to parse?

Now I am not suggesting that this is the way to regain ground from JSON.  It doesnt support lots of things: arrays, datatypes on data content, etc..  But it does not require schemas, and it does provide simple datatypes, enough for automatic data binding.

But when I look at all the hoops W3C XSLT WG is going through to support the bad fit of JSON to XML conversion, I cannot help but wonder whether it might just be better to make XML richer.

I am really noticing a dropoff of XML jobs this year. Maybe it is time to put some "electric paddles" on the patient, rather than leave it in its current obese coma?

Regards
Rick




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