Title: RE: [ebxml-msg] Have you implemented Version 2.0 ?
Lisa,
Before we start beating on Drummond Group we should be
careful to understand what they were offering. They were not certifying that vendor products were
'compliant' with the specification. They were offering a service to ensure
interoperability between products of various vendors. This may seem like
hair-splitting (and for those who know me you understand how difficult that is),
but it is the simple truth. Vendors were not forced to engage in the
testing, they voluntarily participated. There was NO other venue and at
least this method provided a somewhat impartial third-party validation of
facts assumed by the vendors.
I agree that it would be improper to take intellectual
property 'donated' by various organizations and sell it for gain. Like you
and the rest of those on the listserv, we spend significant resources assisting
with standards work. It is intended to produce an open consensus-based
standard, not to advance the interest of any individual company. I think
we are sharing the same soap box. However, in fairness to the Drummond
Group, that is not what has happened. They took the specification and
produced a test plan which allowed the participants in the test to exchange
messages and to systematically exercise their solutions to ensure that they
worked with similiar products from other vendors. In the end, those that
participated can affirm that their products can interoperate. They might
even say that their products are compliant, but not based on the results of the
test. That was not the purpose of the test. For the record,
I do not totally agree with the statements that David has made below,
but I cannot fault Drummond Group for their actions.
Regarding compliance testing, a very different process
is needed. I exchanged messages with Prakash yesterday on this
topic. I am hoping that the OASIS IIC TC can move this forward. I am
prepared to assist anyway necessary to help this work progress. I think we may need to bring
additional resources to the table to assist the IIC. Additionally, there other efforts, like the B2B
Testbed, being proposed by OAG and NIST that can provide additional support to
this area.
Ralph
Berwanger
Ambassador to
Standards
bTrade,Inc
---------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: David Fischer
[mailto:]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:05
PM
To: Seaburg, Lisa;
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Have you
implemented Version 2.0 ?
DGI has donated thousands of hours to ebXML over the last two
years. We are represented on five committees (two as editors and one as
v1.0 Chair) all non-reimbursed. The interoperability test ran
about four months with daily conference calls and constant work on
our part. We are providing this service for very little more than cost
recovery.
DGI is not taking advantage. Why is this any different than
someone implementing the spec and selling their product, thus taking advantage
of hundreds of hours of volunteer work? No one actually volunteers for
ebXML. Everyone has a business reason to be here.
Regards,
David Fischer
Drummond Group.
-----Original Message-----
From: Seaburg, Lisa
[mailto:]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002
1:04 PM
To:
Subject: RE:
[ebxml-msg] Have you implemented Version 2.0 ?
Excuse me, but if this is true, the fee is $35,000!
Then the Drummond group is blatantly taking advantage of the hundreds of
volunteer hours put in by all the people involved. I would like to get
on my soapbox about this, but I won't today. I will wait and see what
other comments come from this email thread.
Lisa
-----Original Message-----
From:
Duane Nickull [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:58 AM
To: Patrick Yee
Cc: Cliff Collins;
Subject: Re:
[ebxml-msg] Have you implemented Version 2.0 ?
The stated charge is a bit steep at $35,000 a pop.
Duane
Patrick Yee wrote:
>
> Excuse me, I want to ask a side track
question.
> What is the charge to have the
messaging implementation to be tested by the
>
Drummond Group? Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> -Patrick
> --
> Patrick Yee
> System Architect
> Center for
E-Commerce Infrastructure Development (CECID)
>
Dept. of Computer Science and Information Systems
> The University of Hong Kong
> Tel:
(852) 22415674
> Fax: (852) 25474611
>
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: "Cliff Collins"
<>
> To:
<>; <>
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:06 AM
> Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Have you implemented Version 2.0
?
>
> > Sybase has
implemented Version 2.0 of the specification. Our
> > product is also part of the interoperability test
that
> > is being run by the Drummond
Group.
> >
> >
Cliff
> >
> >
> -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
[mailto:]
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:47
AM
> > > To:
> > >
Subject: [ebxml-msg] Have you implemented Version 2.0 ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Implementers
>
> >
> > > As I only have a couple of
outstanding non returned ballots the
> > >
specification looks likely to pass I need confirmation that the
> > > specification has been implemented and does
work as we have specified
> for
> > > the submission process. I would like this to be
open so please post an
> > > e-mail to the
list confirming you have successfully implemented
> > > Version 2.0
> > > of
the message services. This is NOT a product announcement only
that
> you
> > >
have implemented and tested it internally. If you do not want
this
> public
> >
> please e-mail me direct and only the number of implantation will be
made
> > > public.
> > >
> > > Ian
Jones
> > > Chair OASIS ebXML Messaging
Services TC
> > >
> > > Tel: +44 (0)29 2072 4063
> > > Fax: +44 (0)29 2072 4137
>
> > Email:
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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--
CTO, XML Global
Technologies
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