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RE: FW: [emix] Power storage strategies
Francis
With respect to the Transactional Energy paper it is focused on the loosely coupled interactions as you suggest. The paper offers no suggestion on how "tightly coupled interactions with in a building or campus might interact. However as David Holmberg suggested earlier in this thread:
"I would add to that—even in the local scenario (i.e., within single ownership boundary) a market based model can make sense. I still need some value signal to determine balance of load, storage, and generation. Price and markets allow for more distributed and simple control. Of course, once we look at interactions with entities outside the owner's boundary (call it the ESI), we want loose coupling, market-based interactions. "
Ed
Edward G. Cazalet, Ph.D.
101 First Street, Suite 552
Los Altos, CA 94022
650-949-5274
cell: 408-621-2772
From: Frances Cleveland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 9:24 AM
To: Ed Cazalet; [email protected]; 'David RR Webber (XML)'
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: FW: [emix] Power storage strategies
Folks -
I agree 100% that self-discovery is going to be vital as devices connect in and out of the "energy management" world.
I also read the Transactional Energy paper, which does cover many, but not all, of the types of necessary interactions. I think the missing types can be summed up as "tightly-coupled" interactions which will be necessary, say, within a building or campus or community to orchestrate responses to the more "loosely-coupled" requests from utilities and aggregators. Without some kind of orchestration, different devices will be fighting against each other as each seeks to maximize its own response which may not be the best global response. (Just think of an orchestra playing Beethoven's Ninth without a conductor).
And, to tie in self-discovery, the orchestra's conductor will need to know how many strings and how many tubas are playing so she can determine how loudly each tuba should play. (Uh, I don't think there is a tuba part in the Ninth, so she would have to shut it up completely!)
Frances
(I cannot post to emix, so if you think it worthwhile, can someone post this?)
At 08:33 AM 5/1/2010, Ed Cazalet wrote:
Gale,
I have added your statement in your recent email to the power storage strategies thread below.
You said:
I missed the call/discussion this week. But wanted to note that the system intelligence must be able to self discover and modify in some fashion as what David Webber described. When dealing with resources that can either degrade or be upgraded/enhanced over time, we have to have an automatic adjusting mechanism which is very similar to a discovery mechanism. Otherwise the system resources will either become underutilized or over committed over time.
Are you advocating a discovery mechanism (1) within the plane of control / single ownership boundary or (2) more globally in place of loose coupling, market-based interactions outside the owner's boundary?
Ed
Edward G. Cazalet, Ph.D.
101 First Street, Suite 552
Los Altos, CA 94022
650-949-5274
cell: 408-621-2772
[email protected]
www.cazalet.com
From: Holmberg, David [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:31 PM
To: David RR Webber (XML); Ed Cazalet
Cc: [email protected]; 'Phil Davis'; [email protected]; [email protected]; 'Considine,Toby (Campus Services IT)'
Subject: RE: FW: [emix] Power storage strategies
I would add to that—even in the local scenario (i.e., within single ownership boundary) a market based model can make sense. I still need some value signal to determine balance of load, storage, and generation. Price and markets allow for more distributed and simple control. Of course, once we look at interactions with entities outside the owner €™s boundary (call it the ESI), we want loose coupling, market-based interactions.
Thanks for a great discussion,
David
From: David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:04 PM
To: Ed Cazalet
Cc: [email protected]; 'Phil Davis'; [email protected]; [email protected]; 'Considine,Toby (Campus Services IT)'
Subject: RE: FW: [emix] Power storage strategies
Ed,
Yikes!!! I was not expecting that answer! I just fell into a time vortex back ten years to beginning of ebXML work.
My scenario was micro-economy local scenario - yours is macro economy - eMarketplace model.
Obviously infinite permutations of these once the supporting infrastructure is there.
Very cool. I like it!
Thanks, DW
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