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   Re: "Clean Specs"

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  • From: Jack Park <jackpark@thinkalong.com>
  • To: xml-dev@ic.ac.uk
  • Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:45:56 -0800

I confess, I am learning a lot, or perhaps becoming vastly more confused
than ever.  Not sure which.  I cannot internalize all the venom regarding
namespaces.  You see, I'm pondering a task that I suspect is a lot larger
than modeling business objects.  I'm vastly more interested in modeling
living objects, and using XML in the process.

In the business world, it is reasonable to see an enterprise as a feedback
network of interactive, and interacting objects.  If I were to model the
enterprise, not just, say, accounts receivable, I would be forced to model
a variety of levels.  I happen to imagine that the use of namespaces would
make that a lot easier.  I also happen to imagine that I'll need something
a damn sight stronger than just an individual tree.  Probably something
along the lines of a massive relational graph, with each node itself a tree
with nodes some of which are yet other relational graphs. 

The occasional mention of groves on this list prompts me to wonder if XML
shouldn't include something like that, along with trees.  Consider the
notion of modeling a living cell (an enterprise unto itself :-)  Starting
out, I'd need a biological namespace, perhaps one dealing with cellular
things.  Then, there's the molecular level (already being done in XML), and
below that, the chemical reactions and all that, perhaps Peter's CML.

Again, when I think like that, it's hard to accept the venom.  Is my line
of thinking worth persuing on this list?

Cheers, Jack Park

At 01:24 AM 2/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Tim Bray wrote:
>> At 11:25 PM 2/7/99 -0500, Murray Maloney wrote:
>> >I can claim that it is a ramshackle compromise because I was
>> >witness to its creation. The process stunk to high heaven.
>> >The result is an awful compromise, and not because I don't
>> >like it.
>> In fact, Murray disagrees so strongly with what the spec *says*
>> (often, and on the record) that he is probably not the best judge
>> of how well it says it. -Tim
>Well who is the best judge then?  I thought that standards bodies were
largely in existence to
>promote concensus on matters which companies and organizations disagree
upon.  Rather than
>bring everyone together, this entire "Namespaces in XML" recommendation
has splintered the
>entire XML community.  By that fact alone, the W3C is not doing a good job
as a standards body
>for the internet.
>I am a forgiving person when it comes to making one, maybe two complete
blunders (such as the
>case with "Namespaces in XML"), but many people are not as forgiving as I.
 Most of these
>people don't post to this list or even subscribe to it.  They would just
look at "Namespaces
>in XML" and then quietly go back to their current vendor specific solution
for their
>web-publishing and e-commerce needs and forget the draft ever existed.
The same goes for
>recommendations like XSL which are polluted with "Namespaces in XML" as
well.  They are the
>real "silent majority" that the W3C seems to have complete disdain for.
>The simple truth is that if the W3C does not behave more sensitive to
criticism in the future
>and conduct itself in a more utilitarian manner, or at least make a change
in the leadership

>of the organization, people like me and many others will clamor for
creating another internet
>standards body that is not as slow in adopting standards as ISO or ANSI,
but is not as
>obstinate as the W3C.
>Of course "Namespaces in XML" has to me been the only super-major screwup
in the W3C's short
>life as a budding internet standards organization.  I guess the question
now is whether or not
>the W3C and its members have the courage to make the necessary changes.
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