xml-dev - Re: The Peace Process: DOM and namespaces...

["Rick Ross" <rick@activated.com>]

David,

It's true that there may be ambiguities in the specs, and there may even be
special extensions within some XML and DOM implementations that extend the
specs to add the capabilities we seem to need to provide truly effective and
efficient support for namespaces in XML.

The issue is, however, that we're trying to stick to the standards as
rigorously as possible. We want to implement compliance with the namespaces
in XML recommendation, and we want to do it effectively using plain-vanilla
implementations of the DOM Level 1. To create or rely on non-standard
extensions would be a tough pill to swallow - it would be so much better if
it were possible to use only the existing (finished and unfinished)
standards.

The specs in the XML space are evolving fast, and this progress is a credit
to the hard work of many well-intentioned and brilliant people - I have no
intention of impugning it.

It would be good for business, however, if there were planned "synch points"
where groups of related and interdependent specs reached a targeted level of
overall functionality together - in a compatible way. 

Tim Bray noted that perhaps the best solution here is to urge that support
for namespaces in XSL be deferred until the next phase - so that initial XSL
applications will not face the complexity and performance hit imposed by
existing specs that do not deliver enough of what each other needs yet.

Regards,
Rick 

The specs related to XML are 

David Megginson wrote:
> 
> Tyler Baker writes:
> 
>  > The DOM has an unstated implication that it reflects a valid XML
>  > document.  If you make a call to getNodeName() on an Element node,
>  > it is expected to return a valid XML name.
> 
> Perhaps, but a violation of an 'unstated implication' can hardly make
> something illegal (Tyler's original claim) -- what Tyler actually
> seems to be suggesting is that expanding QNames in the DOM goes
> against the original spirit of the API, not against the letter.
> 
>  > > The physical representation of an XML document (as defined by XML 1.0)
>  > > is not allowed to have characters like '/' and '@' in element and
>  > > attribute name, but the DOM is not a physical representation; it is an
>  > > API providing access to one view of a document's information set, and
>  > > as such, it is not governed by the Name production in XML 1.0.
> 
>  > This is one way of looking at it.  But this is not clear and there
>  > is no mechanism defined to tell an application whether the DOM is
>  > using these illegal names or not.  If you write the DOM Document
>  > back out to XML, you are writing out illegal names because you
>  > don't know if you are writing out prefixes + local part or
>  > namespace + local part.
> 
> You gotta check anyway -- what if someone's HTML DOM implementation
> were allowing names with illegal letters?  Presumably, however, you
> have turned on namespace munging somewhere in your DOMBuilder (however
> that works), so you know what you're getting.  Namespace munging
> should *never* take place by default for vanilla XML 1.0 processing
> (in Expat, for example, it is a user-configurable option, and for SAX
> 1.0, it is handled by third-party filters [which are surprisingly easy
> to write]).
> 
>  > > The XML 1.0 spec does not even require processors to report element
>  > > names, so in terms of conformance, anything goes kids.
>  >
>  > How is anyone supposed to reliably build any sort of architecture
>  > on XML if everything is this ambiguous.
> 
> We're working on it, but you'd be surprised by what you can do even
> with partial specs.  XML 1.0 defines the physical representation of a
> document as a string of characters; the DOM defines an API into
> structured information, such as XML and HTML documents.  There is a WG
> right now working on the XML Information Set, which will provide some
> glue between the two -- I'll keep everyone posted.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> David

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