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- From: "Steven Livingstone, ITS, SENM" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- To: email@example.com, "'XML Dev'" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:17:08 -0000
Hi Didier -
I suppose to an extent it also depends on what part of the process you look
For the company creating the an instance of a schema, they have their XML
document - ie. a 3rd party requesting a stock order.
This may then be wrapped in the BizTalk framework by a "transparent"
application (say) and create a new BizTalk doc.
When it reaches the other side, it is a BizTalk doc, but the output of the
receiving app is the original XML doc.
So which one's the XML doc? i Suppose it depends who/what is using it?
I guess there would have to be two stylesheets - one for the BizTalk
framework and another for the schema in question.
I would guess SOAP is slightly different though, as it's goal isn't really
to wrap XML docs, but rather uses (usually) XML to wrap remote method calls
As Mark says though, it probably won't matter to most people, as the BizTalk
and SOAP tags will be transparent.
Steven Livingstone - http://www.deltabiz.com
07771 957 280 or +447771957280
Professional Site Server 3, Wrox Press
Professional Site Server 3.0 Commerce Edition, Wrox Press
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Didier PH Martin [SMTP:email@example.com]
> Sent: 22 November 1999 16:38
> To: Steven Livingstone, ITS, SENM; 'XML Dev'
> Subject: RE: What is a document?
> Didier reply:
> I am not so sure. It depends mainly how the document is delivered to the
> receiving end.
> Hypothesis 1:
> The biztalk message is delivered as is to the receiving end. In this case,
> the document is the biztalk message and not the message content.
> Hypothesis 2:
> The biztalk engine removes the biztalk "envelope" and just send the
> In this case, the content is the document, not the biztalk message (i.e.
> envelope + the content).
> So it depends mainly on what is sent to the recipient. If the biztalk
> is used as an internal message passing system then, the content is seen
> externally as the document (the biztalk envelope is removed). For
> you trading partner is supporting the eco framework (ref:
> http://eco.commerce.net) and cxml. In that case, the trading partner do
> understand a biztalk message, the biztalk server has to send only the
> On the other hand, if the receiving end, understand biztalk then the
> is not the document, only a fragment. A fragment handler will be matched
> with the message content and the content processed. But the whole biztalk
> message is then the received document. Let's say now that all the received
> biztalk messages are stored in a folder. You want to display one of them.
> The sender also provided a style sheet so that you can render the
> <Question> where is located the <xml-stylesheet> PI? in the content
> or at the beginning of the biztalk message?. What is the scope of the
> stylesheet? the biztalk message or the message content?
> If the sender biztalk engine included the content's style sheet in its own
> style sheet, then the receiving end will have to:
> a) extract the content
> b) extract from the biztalk message the content's style sheet
> c) produce a document with the content and the content's style sheet.
> Off course this would have been simpler if the fragment got its own style
> sheet but a stylesheet has the whole document as a scope not a fragment.
> What could then be the behavior of a browser if two different style sheets
> are present in the same document? each one targeted to the "screen" media.
> Does the browser takes the first style sheet for a certain scope and the
> other for the fragment? I doubt, the implicit scope of action for a style
> sheet is the document, not a fragment. So, how can I render both the
> envelope and the content with the following constraints:
> a) the envelope is rendered the way the envelope creator wanted
> b) the message's content is rendered the way the content's creator wanted.
> Solution 1:
> Both the envelope and the content have a separate style sheet. Question:
> this document a valid XML+XSLT document (if XSLT is used for styling)?
> solution 2:
> The biztalk message include a single style sheet which includes (i.e
> the content style sheet. The biztalk message has only one stylesheet.
> in that case, the biztalk message becomes the document, not the content.
> solution 3:
> Or both the biztalk envelope and the content have each separate style
> sheets. In this case, there is an implicit rule that the content is always
> removed for processing and that a biztalk message is not a document. That
> cannot be processed for rendition before the content is removed from the
> envelope. Or that is has first to be splitted into two documents 1) the
> envelope, 2) the content. This implies that a biztalk message is not a
> displayable message per se and that some extraction has to be performed
> before rendition.
> You see funny problems brought by using XML as data exchange tools and
> this format is also a document format. Therefore a data exchange gizmo is
> also a document and as such could be rendered with document rendition
> However, we do not have such standards concepts in the XML world for
> 1) envelope (like found in telecom)
> 2) multiple rendition scope ( a style sheet attached to a particular
> My own conclusion with the actual XML state of the art: the biztalk
> is the document not the message content.
> Didier PH Martin
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