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RE: [xml-dev] Caught napping!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PaulT [mailto:pault12@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 4:13 PM
> To: Joe English; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Caught napping!
> > Fabian Pascal
> > goes on at length about how SQL is a poor shadow
> > of the true Relational Model, but I can't seem to
> > find any specific criticisms on his web site.
> > (Presumably he goes into detail in one of his
> > books, but I'm reluctant to shell out the cash.)

Masochist that I am, I've read a good bit of the stuff on his website.  Back
in the good ol' days when Fabian was beating up on the SQL people (I
confess, that's why I started reading his site in the first place; Poetic
justice for me!) rather than the XML people, there were a number of posts:

Look at http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/fp4a.htm (fortunately for our
self-images, Don Chamberlin and Peter Chen are almost as stupid as we are
<grin> ) and

As far as I recall, the big issues that Date (who actually understands the
math, and explains things very well; his little THE DATABASE RELATIONAL
MODEL is the one book to buy if you have $10 and a couple of hours to invest
in understanding the relational model) and Pascal (who appears to take
whatever Date says on faith) have with SQL have to do with NULLs, duplicate
records (the bag vs set issue mentioned by Joe English), the fact that it is
semi-procedural rather than purely declarative perhaps, and something to do
with a lack of proper support for integrity constraints.  Almost all links
are to their own books rather than anything openly available on the
internet, so it would cost someone a couple of hundred dollars to actually
check out their various claims to have demolished SQL .... 

Hmmm ... new (?) item for the Cluetrain Manifesto: if you want people to
truly understand what you have to say, put it up on the Internet ...and if
you want to claim wisdom you don't really have, whine at people to buy your