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   RE: [xml-dev] xml schema

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I think it is not usually advisable to indulge in negative propaganda
about an individual unless you are sure. I think the person indulging in
negative propaganda usually ends up feeling bad when he gets to know the
actual motives behind the other person's actions. Further more, you go
down kind of bad (as jumping to premature conclusions) in the minds of
people who know the other person's objectives, and who work with him.

In stead of arguing about the person and speculating about his ulterior
motives, why do you not argue on the technical details behind the article,
and also try to point out exactly the flaws, if any. That will help
everyone. I do not think you have said anything other than that the author
is in RELAX NG group, has tools for and based on RELAX NG and hence he and
his article are biased. You have the author's contact, why do you not
write to him and discuss your opinions and clarify, rather than discussing
in this list?

As Rick mentioned, the author (I have also met him) he is a young and
dedicated researcher, I have seen his humility first hand.  And he is one
of the most experienced in implementing different schema language
validators, such as the Sun's MSV and many others. I am sure both of you
can learn a lot from each other, rather than arguing like this. If my
recommendation would have any weightage, I would give him a very high
ranking as having the right attitude towards work on XML Schema languages,
and for having made very significant contributions to their growth.

I think you might say that I am also biased -- I know I am not biased. we
started with DTD, then came up with an extension for DTD which goes from
local tree grammars to single type tree grammars, then defined a framework
for comparing schema languages, then spent several weeks on W3C XML
Schema. While we keep track of W3C XML Schema and hope it will improve,
from what ever we have seen, I doubt if there will be much improvement. So
we had to invest on other schema languages. RELAX seemed promising, and
RELAX NG came as exactly suited for data modeling. Where is the bias? --
we hope W3C XML Schema will improve, and really look forward to it, we
have been trying quite hard for the same to happen.

just my opinions.. i have to get back to my work..

cheers and regards - murali.

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Dare Obasanjo wrote:

> Of course, you realize that short of a mind reader or a sworn
> affidavit I cannot give you this evidence.
>  Now if your point is that one should not bandy about claims of bias
> without 100% proof, I concede that it is a valid point. It would have
> saved me a lot more time and responses to simply point out the
> failings and leaps of logic in the article then leave it at that
> instead of suggesting that given the author's background he probably
> had some ulterior motive.
>  As for real refutations, I've pointed out the holes in the article
> more than once in this thread.
> 	-----Original Message-----
> 	From: Elliotte Rusty Harold [mailto:elharo@metalab.unc.edu]
> 	Sent: Mon 9/2/2002 8:22 AM
> 	To: Dare Obasanjo; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> 	Cc:
> 	Subject: RE: [xml-dev] xml schema
> 	At 7:34 AM -0700 9/2/02, Dare Obasanjo wrote:
> 	>Many statements in his article indicate his bias[0]. What more do
> 	>you want, a point by point rebuttal in a counter-article on XML.com?
> 	I want specific evidence that the author of this article is biased.
> 	Note that this is quite different than evidence that the author of
> 	the article is wrong. You can be completely unbiased and still wrong.
> 	Absent such evidence, I find the claim of bias to be mere calumny
> 	designed to avoid a real refutation.
> 	--
> 	+-----------------------+------------------------+-------------------+
> 	| Elliotte Rusty Harold | elharo@metalab.unc.edu | Writer/Programmer |
> 	+-----------------------+------------------------+-------------------+
> 	|          XML in a  Nutshell, 2nd Edition (O'Reilly, 2002)          |
> 	|              http://www.cafeconleche.org/books/xian2/              |
> 	|  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0596002920/cafeaulaitA/  |
> 	+----------------------------------+---------------------------------+
> 	|  Read Cafe au Lait for Java News:  http://www.cafeaulait.org/      |
> 	|  Read Cafe con Leche for XML News: http://www.cafeconleche.org/    |
> 	+----------------------------------+---------------------------------+


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